DeoOmnisGloria.com

Jay, please also remember that Peter Kreeft (whose insights on this topic you posted on this blog) and John Paul II spent a great deal of time establishing that the "Sola Fidei" issue does not divide Catholics and Protestants as deeply as one might first suspect.

In particular, some Protestants can and do understand (some Lutherans in particular) "saved by faith" in a sense which do not incur the anathemas of the Council of Trent. Namely, Protestants can and do proclaiming that a "saving faith" will necessarily evidence itself in righteous deeds. They simply maintain that it is the faith that causes the good works and the salvation rather than faith and works which cause the salvation.

To be sure, there is much that divides the Catholic and Protestant faiths (ordination of women, unrepentant practice of sodomy, supporting abortion, embracing contraception) but the doctrine on justification by "faith alone" need not divide the body of Christ as much as it appears to.

Something else to keep in mind is that while Catholic apologetics geared at responding to Protestant accusations, while excellent in content, still takes a "pre-Vatican II" triumphalist posture (even if written after the Second Vatican Council).

When the Second Vatican Council rephrased the traditional teachings of the Catholic Church, they left the content alone but changed the posture and attitude. I would argue that apologetic material, esepcially with regards to Protestantism, has not undergone a similar "rephrasing" process.

Pope Benedict XVI has even said that work must be done before Protestantism in its current form can even be meaningfully discussed. He takes us back to the documents of the Second Vatican Council which explicitly state that those born into a community of seperated brethren cannot be accused of the sin of separation.

He takes this further says that because the spirit of rebellion which defined the first generation of Protestants cannot be assumed to exist in subsequent generations, the dialogue with the current generation must take on a completely different language than the one that was used at the Reformation.

Also remember that this apologetic material was originally intended to defend against Protestant accusations which were leading the faithful astray. But today, there are so few people who accept the authority of the Bible but attack the Roman Catholic Church - this apologetic material which works so well in defending the faith against older Protestants may or may not be the best tool to invite Protestants who make no attacks against Rome back into the Roman Catholic Church. Perhaps a better approach can be found in The Joint Declaration on the Doctrine of Justification found on the Vatican website.

We should also remember that when it comes to standing up for traditional marriage, the right to life of the unborn, the right to life of the sick, the right to say "Merry Christmas", Evangelical Protestants are by their works fighting a good fight that put Roman Catholics to shame.

Burnt Marshwiggle:

Bravo! As a Christian I believe we are saved by faith not by works so that no one may boast. BUT faith without works is dead. In other words, we cannot earn our way into heaven because our deeds are as "filthy rags" to G-d. However, (as Burnt Marshwiggle pointed out)our good works is the evidence (the fruit) of our saving faith. We cannot say we believe and do nothing (no works). If we truly believe we will bear witness to this by our good works. But our good works can't save us because even many athiest do good works at times. It is our faith in Jesus which empowers us with the Holy spirit who, in turn, leads us to do good works. This is the essential core of the salvation of Christianity. All other issues (perpetual virginity of Mary, infallibility of the pope, method of baptism, etc.) are debatable and non-essential for salvation. Jesus' sacrifice on the cross makes this possible. Now, can protestants and Roman catholics agree on that and unite as one body of believers?

May G-d bless you always,
Ernie

Ernie, there is much that unites Catholics and Protestants. There is also much which appears to divide which need not do so. Knowing this is essential for healthy relationships with one another. For example, Steve Wood (a famous convert) points out in his article on how he led Catholics out of the Church that many Catholics and Protestants both mistakenly believe that the Catholic Church denies salvation by grace. As a result, Protestants lead Catholics out of the Roman Catholic Church in good faith (in an effort to save the soul of the damned Catholic). Steve Wood points out that the proper response to this situation is better catechesis.

However even in this example, the sad fact is that there remain deep divisions that must be healed before we can enjoy the unity necessary to be presented to the Lord as the spotless bride of Christ. Pope John Paul II said that the Church must breathe with both lungs.

Even though all Christians agree that salvation is by God's grace, Roman Catholics do believe (in a manner which appears similar to Wesleyan Christians) that God's grace can be rejected by a single voluntary and deliberate act. We call this mortal sin. Calvinists and Evangelicals would of course disagree (perseverance of the Saints, irresistable grace).

While Catholics would have to reject your idea that apart from salvation by grace all other issues are debatable and non-essential, we do have some similar ideas. For example there is a saying (and I am having trouble finding it) to the effect of our relationship with Christ is of prime importance, everything else is secondary (though some secondary elements may remain undebatable and absolutely necessary). There is another saying we have: in essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, in all things charity.

In my efforts to understand what truly separates us and what only appears to separate us, the greatest obstacle I have found is the fruitless task of putting words into the mouth of another party. I have seen this error made by people on both sides. I have probably done this myself without realizing it. Perhaps my New Year's Resolution should be not to put words into the mouths of others and to patiently correct people when they put words into the mouth of the Catholic Church.

When I re-read my posts, the ones I find most lacking in charity are the ones where I impatiently try to correct people who put words into the mouth of the Catholic Church. Sometimes I think in those situations I should just point out that words are being put into the mouth of the Catholic Church and let WWWO handle the rest.

Burnt

Noway dude... don't leave me out there hangin. You've managed the motherload quite charitably since your latest "renewal." I just enjoy feeling Jesus' love flow out thru your recent words. My words flow like broken glass in a tornado. But the Lord is trying with me. My sarcasm is improving...even if it is by nano measurement.

In Love

when we were one

Burnt,

Thanks for guarding the fort all winter - your torch is shining bright.

According to Roman Catholic doctrine, what happens to a non-Catholic Christian when s/he dies? Do Anglican, Calvinist and Lutheran Christians need to have the sin of not being Catholic "pergatorized" out of them, prior to entrance into His Kingdom? Do they even enter?

On the lighter side: Do Roman Catholics recognize the Anglican baptism?

Best,
Michael O.

Michael O, nice to hear from you again.

Let's start on the lighter side concerning the baptism: The essential rite of Baptism consists in immersing the candidate in water or pouring water on his head, while pronouncing the invocation of the Most Holy Trinity: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. (Catechism of the Catholic Church paragraph 1278)

Based on what I know of baptism practiced by non-Catholics, this means that almost all Protestant baptisms are recognized. Two cases of invalidity that come to mind: First, some protestants baptise "in Jesus name" rather than in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit; Second, the Church of Latter Day Saints has such a divergent understanding of the Trinity that their baptisms cannot be recognized.

Concerning the salvation of baptized Protestants, I think the "rules" are pretty much the same as for Roman Catholics. If a believer (Roman Catholic or Protestant) has failed to repent of mortal sins (Pope Benedict XVI and the Second Vatican Council have stated that failure to enter the Roman Catholic Church cannot automatically be considered a mortal sin) committed after baptism, this person cannot ever enter the kingdom of heaven (though because we do not know exactly what can happen at the hour of death, we can never conclude with certainty that any particular person, not even Judas Iscariot, has gone to hell). If a believer has failed to repent of venial sins then the soul of the blessed believer will yearn so greatly to be cleansed of the attachmentment to sin that it will demand purgatory before facing God as judge.

Roman Catholics receive no "preferential treatment" at the pearly gates - in fact some Roman Catholics have seriously suggested that the deeper layers of hell are paved only with the skulls of Roman Catholics who ought to have known better than do what they did. Other Catholics have said that a good Protestant gets to heaven faster than a bad Catholic.

Why be Roman Catholic then? Only it offers believers the Sacraments of Eucharist (with Transubstantiation) and Confession. Every believer has a right to these gifts from the Lord and Protestant communities do not offer these gifts.

Though when I see the vibrant lives my fellow Protestants lead and compare it to my own, it humbles me to realize that they are doing more even though they were given less.

Coupling this realization with the teaching "to whom much has been given, much more will be expected", makes very real the possibility than many Protestants will receive a much more favorable judgement than I will.

My reaction, of course, should be to make better use of what I have been given - sharing what I have been given with those who have been given much less might be a good place to start!

Burnt,

According to Roman Catholic creed, what price must non-Catholic Christians pay for not being Catholic? Lutherans and Anglicans are told by the Vatican that they are in "imperfect union" with Roman Catholics. I may not take communion at a Roman Catholic mass - what must take place for our union to be perfect?

Prior to your previous posting, I assumed that, according to Rome, Calvinists, Lutherans, and Anglicans would have to remain in purgatory for a long time prior to entrance into His Kingdom.

Michael O.

Michael O,

From what I know of Roman Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Lutheran, and Anglican theology, the key ingredient for having sufficient union to sharing communion has centered around Saint Paul's phrase "discerning the body of the Lord". All communities understand that one must not distribute communion to someone who fails to discern the body of the Lord lest they drink judgement upons themselves.

Of course, these communities disagree on what it means to discern the body of the Lord. Roman Catholics understand the phrase "this is my body" to indicate not merely the Real Presence but also to mean that the bread is no longer bread although it may still appear as bread. Hence the instruction stating that mere belief in the Real Presence is not sufficient to justify receiving communion (I cannot recall if this comes from the Second Vatican Council or the Catechsism of the Catholic Church or both).

If I am correct in believing that having a faith in the Eucharist in conformity with the Roman Catholic Church is necessary for receiving communion, then we do have a deplorable situation as modern catechetical materials for children do not impart a teaching about the Eucharist which justifies their reception of communion.

Fortunately, I have found suitable materials for children in this regard. After I read the standard materials for my child's first communion, I recalled your prophetic call to educate our own.

As for Protestants spending long periods of "time" (time really cannot be expected to have the same meaning to us as to souls without bodies) in purgatory, it is unlikely (but still possible)that Protestants will have the benefit of their children and grand-children praying for them. Though the same could be said of Catholics who do not properly educate their children.

Though in both cases, they need not despair as Catholics do offer prayers for all the souls in purgatory which would presumably also include Protestants in purgatory.

I know of no teaching indicating preferential treatment for Catholics on judgement day. I am currently of the impression that what distinguishes the Catholic faith is that only it offers to its members certain blessings that every Christian has a right to (for example the Body and Blood of Our Lord and Confession). If the faithful do not partake of these blessings, then they have lost most if not all of the advantages of being Catholic.

Wow! What can I say? Well I'll start by saying that this is not the sort of site I would normally post on, but I stumbled across this page by mistake when researching for my dissertation.

When reading the posts people have put up on this page I noticed a few issues which I feel that no one has addressed, but which are absolutely critical to this discussion and also to our eternal salvation.

Before I go on, it would be dishonest for me to write on the wall of a Catholic site without first pointing out to you that I am actually a Protestant, but please please please don't dismiss what I have to say on that ground. I agree wholeheartedly with you that much of the Protestant church (with a little "c") is full of corruptions and I am embarrassed and humiliated by what I see happening around me in the name of "Christianity" and, (at least as far as I am concerned) even worse in the name of "Protestantism". It quite literally makes me feel sick to see such people casually knock aside or explain around the bible and embrace such things as the ordination of women, abortion, homosexual marriages etc. (I have no clear view on contraception as of yet because it is sadly something I have had very little teaching about, though I am beginning to think that the practice of contraception itself is also unbiblical).

So anyway, I think these are a few issues that need to be addressed.

1. Burnt: Please please please don't call the Church of the Latter Day Saints Protestant. It really really really isn't! If you define a Protestant as someone who (Like Luther) protests against the "errors" (I will come to this later)of the Catholic Church, then they may well be Protestants, but then I imagine so are Muslims, Hindus, Jehovah's Witnesses, Sikhs etc. etc. etc. Mormons are NOT Protestants in the sense of being a part of the Protestant Church and if you look into their beliefs you will see that they actually have far more in common with Muslims than with "Christians" of any form or description.

2. Ernie (and everyone else): Are you sure you aren't a Protestant? I have no problem with what you said about faith and works, and I have never heard a Protestant preacher preach anything contrary to this. Ephesians 2. 8-9 says:

8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9Not of works, lest any man should boast.

This is one of the verses where we get the doctorine of "sola fide" from.

The passage then goes on to say:

10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

i.e. When a person is regenerated (born again/ saved) it is entirely due to God's grace and not at all by our own good works. Rather Christ saves us so that we may go on to do good works which he has already ordained for us to do. I'm not sure I would call myself a Calvinist but I do agree with most of the Calvinist doctorines (when taught correctly, which sadly on the whole they are not). One of these is "Total depravity" which means that each one of us is so totally and utterly corrupt and sinful that we are, without God's aid, incapable of good works. Galatians 5.22 lays out a description of the fruits of the spirit. The claim is that if these fruits are absent then a person is not saved. You can not be saved by trying to live your life in accordance with them, they are merely an outward sign of what has happened inwardly.

Romans 3 says:

10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips:
14Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness:
15Their feet are swift to shed blood:
16Destruction and misery are in their ways:
17And the way of peace have they not known:
18There is no fear of God before their eyes.

The Bible says in several places that our sinfulness means that we have absolutely no right to boast about our own good works. I realised that if I write all of these verses out in full, this post is going to be even longer than it already is, so I will just quote the chapters and verses so you can look them up yourselves:

Romans 2.23; Ephesians 2.9; Romans 9.11

Romans 3.27 I will quote in full because it is just amazing: Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.

Galatians 6.4 is also great: But God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto the world.

I'm just trying to point out that throughout the Bible, there is a constant affirmation that the very best of our actions are utterly and completely worthless. You will agree with me that we can't get to Heaven by doing good things, but I would go further and say that the doors of Heaven are firmly closed to anyone who has even the slightest shred of faith in their own goodness. Jesus' sacrifice is sufficient and I believe that it is offensive to God to claim that this is not so.

If you don't read any of the other passages I put up here then read Galatians. Particularly Galatians 3. Paul is writing to a church that has been corrupted by a false gospel that was teaching faith plus works rather than faith alone. He is so harsh with them it is incredible. Though I try to be straight and not to water down what I'm trying to say, I can't promice that everything I say is absolutely right. Paul doesn't compromise.

If you get to the bottom of this then thank you so much for giving time to what I have to say. If you don't agree then feel free to say why not. I am really interested to know, though I would rather think this has been a challenge to your faith or that you already agree with me.

Rachel

Oh yeah...I knew I had more than two points to make but I couldn't remember what the third one was. Someone quoted James 2 as evidence that works contribute to our salvation and I think that this needs to be addressed.

3. First of all this passage needs to be taken in context. Note James 2.17 says "faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone". What this does not say is that faith without works is not enough. It says that faith without works is "dead" i.e. not alive...so...surely this means that it is not real faith. I don't usually like paraphrasing the Word of God, but perhaps it would be accurate to say that James is saying here that faith without works is not real faith.

Verse 22, then, giving the example of Abraham offering up Isaac says: "Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?" This is a logical conclusion. I believe wholeheartedly that if a person has faith then there will be evidence for it in their works. If Abraham simply said to God "Ok. I have faith in you, but I'm not going to offer up my son to you" he would be a hippocrite. In Romans 4 Paul also uses Abraham as an example, when he says "For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness". Surely Abraham was justified by his faith, but it would have been impossible for him both to have faith and to refuse to give up Isaac for God. It would have been as if he were telling God that he just didn't trust him that much. He would be saying to God: "Yeah, I have faith, but not THAT much faith." Do you get my point?

James says "Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only." I absolutely agree, but not because faith without works is not enough. It is. Faith and to no degree works are what saves a person, but faith without works is non existant. It is impossible to have faith and yet hold back from doing works for God. This is like saying "I have faith in you, God. But not enough to tell other people about you...just in case I'm wrong." Or saying "I have faith, but I'm still not going to love that person that really gets on my nerves because I don't believe you've really said that I should. What if the Bible isn't quite accurate?" I could go on. What this doesn't mean, of course, is that a Christian cannot sin. Paul refutes this in Romans 7.18, but it does mean that a Christian cannot wilfully sin. But this is another discussion and this post is already long enough.

Before I finish, let me just lay out for you the gospel and the law as I believe the Bible says they were meant to be seen. I want to know what you think of this, as I have never heard a "real" Catholic's response I will try and do this briefly:

The purpose of the law is to show us that we are sinners, and that we can never meet up to God's standards. (see Romans 3.20) Sin is not an artificial barrier that prevents us from meeting with God. I know this is the way most so-called "Evangelicals" present it (and yes I would call myself an Evangelical), but it is far more than that.

Have you ever told a lie? Then you are a liar!
Have you ever taken something that didn't belong to you? Not even a biscuit, a paper clip, have you downloaded something from the internet that you didnt have the copyright for, or got onto a bus or a train without a ticket? Then you are a thief!
Have you ever felt anger against someone in your heart? Then according to Jesus you are a murderer! (Matthew 5.22-23)
Have you ever looked with lust? Then according to Jesus you are an adulterer! (Matthew 5.28)

The Bible says that one day all liars will have their part in the lake of fire (Revelation 21.8) and lying is generally considered the least serious of the ten commandments. Note: This is referring to Hell, not Purgatory. If you think purgatory exists then find me a reference of it in the Bible.

We absolutely deserve Hell for the things we have done wrong. We have utterly offended God and he owes us absolutely nothing. God is totally just and pure and if he were to just let us off the hook, he would be allowing sin, and abetting a crime is as bad as comitting it yourself, so this is something God is just incapable of doing. If he were fair he would throw us all into the pit right now. Fortunately for us you could say he isn't, because he sent his only Son, Jesus Christ into the world as a man and he bled and died on the cross of Calvary. On the cross he bore all the punishment that we deserve for our sins, and God even turned his face away. On the cross Jesus declared "It is finished" (John 19.30) and Paul also claimed that it was a once and for all sacrifice (Romans 6.10), hence no need for Jesus to be sacrificed continually in Mass services. It was finished on the cross, and because we are so utterly sinful and because God is perfect and provided a perfect way for us to be forgiven, we both do not need to do good works to contribute to our salvation, and we cannot as we are incapable. All good works we do are God working through us.

Wow. I just copied and pasted this onto Word and it came up as being 4 pages. I'm really sorry this ended up being so long. It really wasn't supposed to be, but nevertheless I stand by everything that I've said. Please let me know your reaction.

Rachel, I re-read my post and realize that due to my poor phrasing gave the wrong impression that I considered Mormons to be Protestant. I meant to bring up the Church of Latter Day Saints as an example of a non-Catholic baptism being invalid in contrast to most non-Catholic baptisms being valid (e.g. most Protestants). Hope that clears things up.

Rachel, on Feb 15, wrote: Faith and to no degree works are what saves a person, but faith without works is non existant. It is impossible to have faith and yet hold back from doing works for God.

Let me submit that even Satan believes in God, though he doesn't want to submit to His athority. Note Satan tempting Jesus during his fast. Satin knew who Jesus is and Satans works were to try to tempt Jesus and to bring him down. It is very possible to believe in Jesus but not to submit and to do evil even.

Also note the demon that Jesus cast out and into the herd of swine. That demon knew Jesus and recognized His authority.

I submit that we are saved through God's grace, but our deeds dictate where we might sit at the table or as Jesus says in Revelation 22:12, some of his final words in scripture: I am coming soon and I will reward you according to the deeds you have done. I would say that we are saved by God's Grace, but we will recieve recompense, reward or perhaps a seat nearer to the head of the table based on the deeds we do according to God's calling for us.

Hi. Thanks for that comment David. Your reply was fairly short so I'm not really sure what you believe. Sorry if I'm getting the wrong idea here but I would like to post what I think is an adequate reply to what you have said. I would just like to add though that I don't think that Jesus died for the sins of the devil and his angels so I don't think that the fact that they know who Jesus is realy affects the issue of faith, since salvation is not an option that God has given them.

However, having said that,James 2.19 says "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble." Clearly then what we "believe" does not affect our salvation, since "the devils also believe".

I think the issue here may be one of definition rather than doctorine. You said "It is very possible to believe in Jesus but not to submit and to do evil even." I agree completely, however let me point out that I never claimed that "beliefs" are what save a person, but faith. Feel free to correct me if you think I'm wrong but I think that there is a difference between belief and faith.

This example has kinda been done to death so I apologise if you've heard it a million times but I can't think of a better one. I can believe that a chair will support my weight if I sit on it. I could (if I were any good at maths) get out a calculator and some paper and perhaps get some plans of the chair from the designer and even mathmatically work out that the chair would indeed hold me up, and I could double and triple check that all the connections are glued or screwed together tightly so that they won't come undone, but even if I do all this my belief will be, at most, an academic belief unless I actually test out my belief by sitting on it. This, I think, is the difference between faith and belief. When I actually sit on the chair I have passed from the realm of belief into faith.

I believe the correct definition of faith is "leaning on" something. Believing that Jesus has died for my sins and actually having faith in it are two completely different things. Having faith means putting all my trust entirely in Jesus and nothing else. If I am trusting even a little bit in my own good works then I can't claim to have faith in Jesus' sacrifice on the cross.

Martin Luther said of faith; "Faith is a living, bold trust in God's grace, so certain of God's favor that it would risk death a thousand times trusting in it." I quite like the use of the word "trust" which I think is far closer to faith than "belief". I don't believe it is possible for someone who has this kind of faith not to repent and turn from their sins, firstly out of gratitude to Christ and secondly and more importantly because of the work of the Holy Spirit, who changes lives.

I'm not sure what I think about what you are saying about works being rewarded in Heaven. I think there are referances in the Bible which may be indications of this so I'm not going to argue against you, but I do know that the qualification for getting into Heaven in the first place will be faith and not works. Once in Heaven, people may be rewarded independantly for the works that they have done, I don't know. But the people who are trusting in their works to get them to Heaven, even a little bit, won't be there to recieve a reward. Such people would have never done a truly "good" thing in their life since every so called "good work" was tarnished by their self-righteousness. Everyone who does not have absolute faith in Jesus' sacrifice for them on the cross will one day suffer the just consequences for their evil deeds in Hell, and this is not something I delight in saying, and I deeply wish it were not the case.

I would appreciate it if you could think about this.

Rachel

As regards the term "faith alone" not being found in the Bible - we need to keep in mind, the word/concept distinction. For example, though the word, "trinity" in nowhere found in the Bible, this does not mean that the concept is not there.

God Bless,
RR

RR

Actually, "faith alone" is found in the bible. I understand that Luther added it to support his false claim of "by faith alone are we saved." He then removed it in later Lutheran versions.

But even without Luther modifying scripture, "faith alone" is mentioned by James. As in: James 2:24 - "You see that a man is justified by works and NOT by faith alone." Emphasis mine.

In Love

when we were one

In sports there are many who choose to follow a team cause they believe in that team. Unfortunately not all bring home the title for there can only be one winner. So the gambling man would have to really search before laying it all on the line; he would have to believe! Now his reward would be based on the odds of that team winning and how much he laid down from his hard earned money. His faith would be measured on the amount of the bet. Nevertheless he would still receive a pay out for choosing the winning team. Now my question on this would be: did the gambler contribute to the team in winning?

Now when one chooses to follow Christ one must measure the cost (luke 14:25-35). One must first acknowledge that he is a sinner in need of a savior. Secondly believe the gospel; that Jesus came from heaven to die for our sins and risen by God on the third day (romans 10:1-13). Third confess Jesus as Lord and Savior of your life. Now my question on this would be: did mankind contribute to what Christ did on the Cross?

Answer to both questions is NO! The gambler did not partake in the team winning. All he did was show faith in that team, he trusted in the team; he believed. Now do we partake in achieving our salvation; NO! We believe and trust in the Lord and place our faith in Him alone for He will deliver us.

Ephesians 2
8For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith?and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God? 9not by works, so that no one can boast. 10For we are God's workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Matthew 19
28Jesus said to them, "I tell you the truth, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother[f] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and WILL INHERIT ETERNAL LIFE. 30But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

How do we inherit eternal life? by following.

Following who? Jesus Christ.

Jerry

I'm not sure I totally understand your post but I agree with much of it. Catholics believe that we are saved by God's grace alone.

In Love

when we were one

Jerry,

Did the mother of the team captain who score the winning goal contribute to the win?

We're pretty quick to blame Eve for all our troubles - why are we so slow to acknowledge the role of others such as Mary?

Did the mother contribute? No.
She had nothing to with his ability out on the field; that was due to his natural talent and ongoing training.

As for Eve and all of our troubles; where is Adam?
The way I see it Adam is to blame; yes, Eve was deceived but Adam ate as well. Adam being the man did not have to eat from the tree. If I know not to eat of a certain fruit I should abstain from it; no matter what my wife might say. For God made man and woman to be the same none over the other but man is the head of his wife. So the man has to lead just as Christ leads the church. After they have eaten from the tree who did God come looking for? Was it Adam or Eve?
Gen. 3 9 But the LORD God called to the man, "Where are you?"
As you read on you will see that man blamed the woman but we know that we are accountable for our own sins. It is easy to blame others but ultimately it is our own choosing that gets us in trouble.

Acknowleging Mary? She is the mother of Jesus is what I know. Assuming you are speaking of this Mary. Anyway, this is off track of the 'faith alone' topic.

I could go on in the direction that you wish but that would be divisive which is what Satan would love to see here. He would love to see us focus on others rather than focus on Christ, on the Cross where we all find victory and freedom.

My point to my previous comment is that our faith in Jesus Christ is what makes us righteous. Romans 1:17, 1 Cor. 1:29-31; I could go on with scripture. I will close with one which tells of what the Lord Jesus Christ did for us on the CROSS and there is nothing that you or I could do to add. See my friends if we add by works we subtract what Christ did.

Galatians 2:15 "We who are Jews by birth and not 'Gentile sinners' 16 know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified.

17 "If, while we seek to be justified in Christ, it becomes evident that we ourselves are sinners, does that mean that Christ promotes sin? Absolutely not! 18 If I rebuild what I destroyed, I prove that I am a lawbreaker. 19 For through the law I died to the law so that I might live for God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ and I no longer live, but Christ lives in me. The life I live in the body, I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God, for if righteousness could be gained through the law, Christ died for nothing!"

The law is "works" in which they tried to please God but oh we fall so short of His perfect law. Thank God for Christ Jesus who has paved a Way for us who trust in Him. Through His saving grace my works are seen.

Please my friends do not demise what Jesus Christ did on the Cross by adding just stand on His promises and receive forgiveness. Do not call on anyone but the Lord (Acts 4:12) Jesus for by doing so you put others before Him. And we all know the first commandmet, right?

God Bless you all.

Jerry,

Did you know that Tiger Woods credits his mother and father with much of his ability on the golf course? He says that he received mental discipline from his Asian mother and physical prowess from his African father.

Do you know more about sports than Tiger Woods? Do you know enough about sports to give others enough information on which to base their eternal life?

While I understand and accept the Christian belief that we cannot earn our salvation, on what basis does the Protestant belief that nothing we do matters follow?

oh we will be judged as to what we have done or not have done.

one's eternal life is based on what scripture says:

1 John 5:11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life.

John 3: 16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[f] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

Romans 10:9 That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

never did i say 'nothing we do matters'.

don't take this personal i don't claim to know much but one thing i do claim is that Christ died for you and i. at the cross is where we find salvation now whether you believe this or not i don't know. without Christ we are nothing.

God bless.

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