DeoOmnisGloria.com

Wow! well Hitler would have been proud of America. We followed right in his footsteps...he killed 6 million Jews and we murdered 45 million innocent babies. there will be an accounting demanded of America for these horrible crimes which we have allowed to happen and I shudder to think what that will consist of. America will not continue to exist as we know it if our moral base continues to crumble. No society that permits its own children to be killed will continue to exist and neither will a society without a moral base. Just look at the Romans

You guys have it all wrong. Yes, lets look at the Romans. Why did Rome fall? Because it was morally bankrupt? No, not at all. Rome fell because it extended its dominical reach too far...it is called empire building (hear "nation building"). Rome just thought it could keep reaching and reaching, spreading its economic and military influence throughout the inhabited world. Eventually it reached to far, and the world "out there" collapsed on it.

It seems like you fellows are willing to let the whole rest of the world go to hell so long as you keep democrats out of office.

Jay, do you on principal keep all pro-abortion democrats out of office simply because of their position on abortion? And if so, do you do this without considering striking a balance in policy? For example: will you vote for a pro-abortion democrat if it would result in balanced policy-making as far as world wide economics goes and IF you knew that his or her office would not be able to effect anything regarding abortion? Or are you so narrow minded that you will simply not rest until the entire government is being run by anti-abortion, conservative Republicans? If this latter situation is the case, there may not be a world left for all those babies you think you're saving. Heck, the moral conservatives stand the most to loose as far as power and money goes. Have you ever wondered about the fact that the majority of anti-abortion folks in the country are wealthy, big-business, big-developement proponents who think global warming is just a liberal trick? They have the most to loose financially if they're forced to clean up their act (only grossing 30 billion this year instead of 65...wow, thats a heavy life-style changing loss...having to learn to get by on only 30 billion dollars)...think oil!

I'll bet you guys would just keep voting republican even if you knew for certain it meant the persitence of abject poverty in the third world...so long as it isn't our American babies that are starving, we'' tolerate it. Arms sales?? Don't even get me started there. Guess who the biggest arms dealer in the world is? And how many children are killed by these weapons? And who is the President of that country? Hmmm... Not much talk about stuff like this going on here!

TTFN

Horrific as the Democrat stance on abortion is, they will make inroads into the Catholic community unless the Catholic community turns away from the sin of contraception.

As long as this sin remains unchecked, Catholic opposition to abortion and gay-marriage will weaken until the Democrat position becomes seemingly palatable. The Catholic communities are on a very slippery slope right now. The Democrats are just waiting at the bottom to scoop them up.

Jay, if what you and I believe about contraception is true, then the Democrat strategy is much more practical and likely to succeed than either of us would care to admit.

I'm beginning to realize that I cannot rely on the clergy and the bishops to lead the charge as the ones willing to take a stand were kicked out of seminary years before they were even close to being ordained.

Broken Record, It is funny how you worry about democrats "making inroads" into the Catholic Community. I am a cradle Catholic, and a life-long Democrat who is proud of her Church's stance on LIFE. I will not vote for a candidate who is pro-abortion IF the position he or she is running for is LIKELY and realistically to result in the death of more inocent babies. And this does not exclude President Bush either since, as Jones points out, many of his policies allow for the sale of weapons to foreign countries (many if not most in Africa), that directly result in the death of innocent children. If this is not as obvious a form of aborting God's children as is clinical abortion, I do not know what one is. He did NOT get my vote because it simply was not clear that his vacating the office of President would have directly affected (positively or negatively) the number of clinical abortions. But I did know for sure that he would maitntain business as usual when it comes to putting weapons into the hands of people that will kill children.

One issue politics makes a mockery out of Catholic ethics and Catholic moral theology. The world we live in is simply just too sinful to be so overly simplistic about even this important issue.

Janie

Janie, did you vote for John Kerry? I have never said I supported Bush's stance. I know very well how leading Catholic, "pro-life", theologians and priests disregarded the Vatican's condemnation of the war in Iraq as immoral and unjust. I was quite disappointed in the American pro-life response to an unjust war.

I am fully aware that Pope John Paul II called for people to respect life in the womb and on death row - but that American Catholics forget the inconvenient parts that place the Republicans offside.

Just because the Democrats are unworthy of Catholic support, that does not make Republicans worthy. Similarly just because Republicans are unworthy of Catholic support, that does not make the Democrats worthy.

I fully respect and admire your refusal to vote for Bush but I fail to see how this justifies voting for Kerry. I fully respect and admire Jay's refusal to vote for Kerry but I fail to see how this justifies voting for Bush.

The Republicans and Democrats both support gravely evil policies.

Janie

Thanks for beating up on BR. I vote pro life... I'm not affiliated with anyone. Beating up on BR is good because he is a Canuck and its hard to do (he being pretty well versed).

You may say hey pro life also means anti war and anti death penalty. Well I'm not going to tangle with you there. But when my kid asks me "Hey dad how do you eat a purple dinosaur?," I say "one bite at a time."

Indeed I'm not sure if the president has seated anti abortion justices... but I'm positive a pro abortion stance would have been the litmus test for the more biased Kerry's choices for the bench.

In Love

when we were one

Have pro-choicers ever voted for a pro-life candidate because they felt one-issue voting was too complex for today's world?

Your question makes no sense broken record. “Have pro-choicers ever voted for a pro-life candidate because they felt one-issue voting was too complex for today’s world?”

One issue voting is not what is complex. But one issue voting is, in my opinion, a sinful way of voting since it requires absolutely no understanding of the world we live in apart from the one particular issue. The world we live in is what is so complex. There are so many of my fellow parishioners who know so little, or nothing about anything else that is going on in this world, it is embarrassing. It is like abortion is the only thing happening to children that deserves our time or attention, when so many other things are going on that deserve, no, that DEMAND our attention and our actions in the voting booth. Problem is, most of us Americans are far too busy maintaining our relatively wealthy lifestyles and living in our protected, antiseptic world that we have no time or even desire to bother learning the ramifications of our decisions in the ballot box. Easier to simply ask, “Pro-choice? (yes, no?), or Pro-life? (yes, no?), and then cast a ballot.

Whew, now back to my terribly busy and important life.

Have pro-lifers ever voted for a pro-choice candidate because they knew that the candidate’s position (if elected) would not directly affect the number of clinical abortions? Now, that is a question to ask.

Sorry, mean to ask if pro-choicers ever voted for a pro-life candidate because one issue voting was too simplistic for today's complex world.

I just find it odd that this horror of "one-issue-voting" is only used to sway pro-lifers to betray their beliefs. What I want to know is: have pro-choicers ever considered voting pro-life because other issues "need equal consideration"? Or is there some good reason that only pro-lifers need to repentfrom the sin of "one-issue-voting"?

Broken record, I can only attempt to speak for myself, not for any other Roman Catholic pro-life person who sees the horror of children suffering world-wide, and knows so much about the causes that it makes even a simple trip to a voting booth, a very tough time. So much preparation and prayer, thinking and rethinking, hoping and despairing, prayer prayer prayer.

But I know that it is because of the richness of my Catholic faith and the teachings of the Church that my conscience is called to such difficult deliberation over such decisions.

One issure voting is sinful to my mind, regardless of what the one issue is. I suppose that pro-lifers get reminded about their one-issue poitics because the issue is in the news so much. But, as I said, so many children have been and are being "aborted" - murdered! world wide by so many sinful systems and structures (not just "clinical abortion") that politicians do not even want to bring up because any significant change might mean really significant life-style changes for us Americans.

Catholics, I believe, have a deep responsibility to immerse themselves in "the world." But like most Americans, it is easier to just ignore so much.

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