October 07, 2004
Where did the Catholic Church get the word “Catholic”?
“Catholic” is actually a Greek term meaning “universal”. The Catholic Church was the one, universal church until the Eastern Orthodox schism in 1054 A.D. (the Protestant schism is relatively young in comparison). So, it was naturally referred to as the universal Church founded by Christ. Initially the early Church Fathers began using the term “catholic” to describe the Church in A.D. 110:
Let no one do anything of concern to the Church without the bishop. Let that be considered a valid Eucharist which is celebrated by the bishop or by one whom he ordains. Wherever the bishop appears, let the people be there; just as wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.
- - Ignatius of Antioch Letter to the Smyrneans
Ignatius was a bishop and note that this is relatively close to the time of the Apostles (St. John was still alive) and the New Testament was recently finished, but it still was almost 300 years away from being pulled together into one book. Also, note that Ignatius is using the term “universal”, but he’s using it in a way to define the Catholic Church – he doesn’t merely mean “all Christians” (he is also referring to the Eucharist, which those outside of the Catholic Church don’t have).
There are numerous other references to the Church as the “Catholic Church” in the early Church fathers, but I thought I would just point out the first one.
God bless,
Jay
PS – we’re getting back to posting. Sorry for the delays!
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Jay,
OK, Catholic means Universal and the definition of Universal is: Webster's 1913 Dictionary (a.) 1. Of or pertaining to the universe; extending to, including, or affecting, the whole number, quantity, or space; unlimited; general; all-reaching; all-pervading; as, universal ruin; universal good; universal benevolence or benefice.
( 2.) Constituting or considered as a whole; total; entire; whole; as, the universal world.
So all catholic means is Worldwide or Whole or entire.
I am not clear why Catholic is so important?
I need clarification . Does it somehow mean The Only True church ? Are you saying that the Roman Catholic Church is the only legitimate church of Jesus Christ? If so what about the millions of people who are believers and followers of Jeus but are NOT members of the RCC ? What is their status in the eyes of Christ? Are they second Class or illegitimate Christians?
Or is it as I believe, that Universal means ALL believers in Cbrist, whatever label or denomination ? After all we Really are not Peterans or Paulans or Lutherns or Roman Catholics . We are ALL Christians which implies followers of Jesus Christ .. We all have Christ and His word (The Bible) and His promises in common. We are univerally part of One Body. The body of Christ.
Your Brother in Christ,
Clem
Posted by: Clem at October 13, 2004 12:52 PMClem,
The point is that from about 100 A.D., while some of the Apostles were still alive, the Church considered itself the "Catholic Church" and was organized just as the Church is today (albeit on a smaller scale). In addition, they were celebrating the Eucharist as we understand it today.
God bless,
Jay
I have two questions:
1. Is the Eucharest that has been blessed by a Priest who has broken some church rules (or sacrament) not as good as one blessed by a Priest who has not? Are the two eucharists different in value or holyness/purity?
2. Is there a timely death or each one is different.
3. When praying the rosary, is it wrong to remain seated in a chair or one has to neal down.
E. Lumande,
First, the Church has always taught that the priest's ministry is carried out to its fullest regardless of the priest's personal state, so when they say the Mass, it is still Jesus who becomes present in the Most Blessed Sacrament.
Second, the rosary is a prayer, and a personal prayer at that. Therefore, the Church has never specified a certain posture that must be maintained when saying this prayer. So it really does not matter if you sit or kneel, as long as you are praying with a sincere heart and attempting to focus and meditate on the mysteries.
I'm not sure what you mean by the death question.
In Christ,
Joe
Joe,
I want to make sure I am understanding what you said correctly. Did you say the personal state of a priest does NOT matter when serving the Mass and distributing Holy Communion?
If that is the case then that would go against what was required of the priests in the OT. They had to be clean when they offered the sacrifice for the people. When the priest went into the Holy of Holies to offer the sacrifice he had a rope tied around one leg and a bell. If the bell stopped ringing the other priests would know that the priest was dead and they used the rope to pull his body out of the Holy of Holies.
It sounds like you are saying that a priest could offer mass and distribute communion in a state of personal sin ? How can he handle what Catholics consider the actual body and Blood of Christ and distribute it in a slate of Sin.. How is this acceptable to God ?
In Christ,
Clem
Posted by: Clem at October 28, 2004 11:15 AMClem,
Since you are Catholic I'll just give you what the Church teaches:
1548 In the ecclesial service of the ordained minister, it is Christ himself who is present to his Church as Head of his Body, Shepherd of his flock, high priest of the redemptive sacrifice, Teacher of Truth. This is what the Church means by saying that the priest, by virtue of the sacrament of Holy Orders, acts in persona Christi Capitis.
"It is the same priest, Christ Jesus, whose sacred person his minister truly represents. Now the minister, by reason of the sacerdotal consecration which he has received, is truly made like to the high priest and possesses the authority to act in the power and place of the person of Christ himself. (virtute ac persona ipsius Christi).
Christ is the source of all priesthood: the priest of the old law was a figure of Christ, and the priest of the new law acts in the person of Christ."
1549 Through the ordained ministry, especially that of bishops and priests, the presence of Christ as head of the Church is made visible in the midst of the community of believers. In the beautiful expression of St. Ignatius of Antioch, the bishop is typos tou Patros: he is like the living image of God the Father."
1550 This presence of Christ in the minister is not to be understood as if the latter were preserved from all human weaknesses, the spirit of domination, error, even sin. The power of the Holy Spirit does not guarantee all acts of ministers in the same way. While this guarantee extends to the sacraments, so that even the minister's sin cannot impede the fruit of grace, in many other acts the minister leaves human traces that are not always signs of fidelity to the Gospel and consequently can harm the apostolic fruitfulness of the Church.
- Catechism of the Catholic Church, pg. 387
The New Covenant radically changed the Old Covenant, whereas the Old Covenant required external cleanliness, the New Covenant called for cleanliness of heart. Yet Jesus knew the nature of human beings, He even took sinful men to be His Apostles. Yes, He calls all of us to be perfect, yet gave His Church the ability to forgive the sins of men in order to encourage and, in reality bring into effect, true conversion of heart. As St. John said:
If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just, and will forgive our sins and cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.
- 1 John 1:8-10
In Christ,
Joe
Joe,
Basically you are saying the church is saying that the personal purity of heart is not an issue in celebrating the mass or in administering Holy Communion..
I know that none of us are free from sin, even when we are serving the Lord ..
What I was referring to were Pediphile priests or priests willfully engaging in blatant sin.
But it would appear from the catecism above that the celebrant is exempt when celebrating the Mass.
It just appears that there is a dual standard, one for the Clergy and one for the rest of us ..
Your Brother in Christ,
Clem
Posted by: Clen at October 31, 2004 11:15 AMClem, hold on before declaring a double standard concerning communion, the clergy and the laity.
Remember the clergy and laity are in some sense not in the same boat when it comes to the Eucharist. What I mean is that the clergy typically distributes communion to the laity.
When the Church teaches that it is sacriliege for anyone to receive communion while conscious of a grave sin, the question arises as to whether it is sacriliege to receive communion from clergy / eucharistic ministers who are in a state of mortal sin.
The answer is that when the faithful approach communion, they need not worry if their minister is in a state of grace, the faithful need only concern themselves with their own state. Thus, those who have received communion and baptism from priests who committed sexual abuse need not fear they were somehow mistaken when they received the Eucharist.
Though now I think of it, this raises an interesting question that I have been unable to find a Catholic answer to on Google (came as a bit of a shock because I'm so used to finding first-rate answers to any Protestant question/accusation within 30 seconds of searching on Google): If a priest is in a state of mortal sin, how can he celebrate the mass since Catholics must be present for the priest taking communion in order to fulfill their Sunday obligation?
Joe, Jay can you help me out here?
Posted by: Richard Wan at October 31, 2004 12:39 PMRichard,
I realize that Priests are human beings first and that they sin.. How can they give absoluttion in confession or serve the Mass if they are in a mortal sin like Child molestation or some other serious sin..? I understand what you are saying regarding people receiving the sacrements being protected because they received them in good faith not knowing about the priest..
But I feel that this is a much more serious situation because the priest is committing multiple sins they are committing the sin, then they are compunding the sin by concealing it.
They are offering the body and blood of Christ when they celebrate the mass.. To me this is VERY serious ... I would be just as concerned if a Protestant pastor were committing a mortal sin and concealing it from the congregation.
It is not computing how a Pope or the Magisrim can be infallible in a church teaching , but they are only human if they are caught in some sin? Aren't they the same person. How or Why would the Holy Spirit speak through someone if they were willfully sinning? Were there not Bad or Blatantly sinful Popes somewhere in church history? Did they not make decisions on Church doctrines? How could or why would the Holy spirit use anyone who was willfully sinning?
Catholic or Protestant ?
Clem
