July 17, 2004
Hunger for God
I think it’s important to note that there are two kinds of people in this world. There are those who are practical atheists, which means no matter what they profess to believe it really doesn’t affect their lives in any direct way. Then there are those who seek out God and attempt to conform to the truth they understand – this includes virtually everyone visiting our blog – after all if you didn’t care you wouldn’t have ever found us.
A conversion from one belief system to another is a big deal – to shake off an old religion that you have grown up believing is very difficult. This type of conversion demands not only intellectual assent to truth but something more, it demands some reason for conversion; if there was no real reason, most would allow conversion to be put off for years – even if they mentally assented to the new truth. For me, it was a hunger or a thirst for God. I came to accept the Biblical doctrine of the Eucharist and I hungered for it in a way that prevented me from putting off my conversion. God is calling each of us to an intimate relationship based upon consuming His flesh and blood, is there any way to resist? Even if there was, why would you want to? There is no closer personal relationship with Christ.
In John 6, Jesus commands that we must eat His flesh and drink His blood so that we might have life in us. Through this consumption of God, we receive direct grace that gives us the strength to conform our will to His, to become the men and women He calls us to be. The question is not, “Am I required to partake in order to get to heaven?” the question is, “How can I wait another day to unite with God in such a way?” Especially when God desires this even more than we do.
God bless,
Jay
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John 4:31-34
31Meanwhile his disciples urged him, "Rabbi, eat something."
32But he said to them, "I have food to eat that you know nothing about."
33Then his disciples said to each other, "Could someone have brought him food?"
34"My food," said Jesus, "is to do the will of him who sent me and to finish his work.
This is but one of many places where the Lord uses food as analogy to the Spiritual.
John 6:26-28
26Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, you are looking for me, not because you saw miraculous signs but because you ate the loaves and had your fill. 27Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life, which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval."
28Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
Later on these same people who par took in the food offered by Christ were rebuked and called Sons of the enemy. Apparently no change was made in them!!
1 Corinthians 8:8 (speaking of food sacrificed to Idols)
8But food does not bring us near to God; we are no worse if we do not eat, and no better if we do.
If food is transformed by cermony to Christ then food sacrificed to Idols would be considered bad?
1 Corinthians 10:3,4
3They all ate the same spiritual food 4and drank the same spiritual drink; for they drank from the spiritual rock that accompanied them, and that rock was Christ.
How did Christ exist among the Hebrews in the desert, were they eating and drinking him, was it spiritual?
Matthew 4 4:3,4
3The tempter came to him and said, "If you are the Son of God, tell these stones to become bread."
4Jesus answered, "It is written: 'Man does not live on bread alone, but on every word that comes from the mouth of God.'[1] "
This is another example of spiritual food being the word of God.
I don't expect my handy use of google and biblegateway to convert you to my point of view but I hope that it will open you up to the holy spirit. Jesus is the word, he is truth, he is love. When he speaks of eating him he speaks of taking those attributes into your self. Reliance on the ceromony for communion(fellowship) does not compare to having a real relationship with him. One of the biggest disapointments I have with the Catholic faith are your prayers to the saints. If you want this or that from the Lord you do not take your rights as Children of God but seek a saint to speak to God for you. This is necromancy, detestable to God as spoken of in Deut 19.
I leave with one last thought...
1 Timothy 2
5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men--the testimony given in its proper time. 7And for this purpose I was appointed a herald and an apostle--I am telling the truth, I am not lying--and a teacher of the true faith to the Gentiles.
Preist, Pastors, teachers, etc are not mediators they are servants to the body. Thier job is to oversee and assits you in your walk with God not to walk with God for you. Yes I intreceed for people but it is stil them that must make the choice.
God Bless
Posted by: Stan at July 19, 2004 12:43 AMStan,
First wipe out all the references to "food" above - we're talking about the Eucharist, which Christ commanded us to eat. In the Scriptures it is referred to as bread and wine, not "food." The best verse to look at (outside of John) is 1 Cor 11:23-27. This futher explains the Eucharist. Also see this post on the Eucharist in the Bible. The Eucharist is clearly taught in the Bible - I find it interesting you try and use these odd remarks to discount a clear teaching of Christ; He says we "must" eat His body and drink His blood, not that we "can". Oh, and He loses all of His followers except the twelve because of this teaching.
Your second point is even more ludicrous. How are those on earth not mediators, but those already dead are? Both are part of the body of Christ and both do the exact same thing: pray. We simply ask the Saints to pray for us, not to come down and perform tasks for us! It is still us who must make the choice. Be reasonable, Stan, if you can ask those on earth, you can ask those in heaven.
God bless,
Jay
Jay,
Please give us scriptural references each time you make a point.
Now as for the passage you referred us to.
This from the New American Bible
For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread,
24
and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, "This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me."
25
In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me."
26
For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes.
What does verse 26 explain? It reads like an explanation. It tells us that whenever we eat and drink the bread...we proclaim the death of the Lord. Where does this passage show support for the Eucharist belief's?
Be blessed
Jeff,
Your quote shows clear support for the Eucharist. Jesus didn't say, "This is like my body"; He said, "This is my body" and "This is my blood". Also, I highly encourage you to keep reading the passage, it continues:
Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner, shall be guilty of the body and the blood of the Lord.
28 But a man must examine himself, and in so doing he is to eat of the bread and drink of the cup.
29 For he who eats and drinks, eats and drinks judgment to himself if he does not judge the body rightly.
30 For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep.
I used your translation, although I feel it leaves a little to be desired. But it still gets across the point of how serious consumption is of "this bread" and "wine". If you eat and drink unworthily you may get sick or even die.
The other verses I was referring to are in the second half of John chapter 6 (verse 43 and following), where Jesus demands that we eat His flesh and drink His blood or we have no life in us. It's one of the more powerful statements Christ makes during His ministry.
God bless,
Jay
Jay,
"Your quote shows clear support for the Eucharist. Jesus didn't say, "This is like my body"; He said, "This is my body" and "This is my blood". Also, I highly encourage you to keep reading the passage, it continues:"
Did Jesus ever say that He was "like" a door? Or that He was "like" a light. Jesus often spoke in metaphors. I can quote many more metaphors Jesus Christ himself. So this stance you have is voided unless you believe that Jesus is a door with a knob on it.
As for Jn 6:43 and on...
I believe that the analogy is clearly expressed.
Jesus spoke of the forefathers eating manna in the desert. Yet they died. You know that that manna was from heaven. But it was for nourishment of the flesh. But Christ says that He is the bread that a man may eat and not die.
He is real food and real nourishment. The reality Christ is speaking to is of the Spirit.
Don't believe me...look at John 6:63
"The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The WORDS I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life."
God Bless
Posted by: Jeff at July 19, 2004 05:23 PMJeff,
Why no comment on Paul's teaching that 1) you can only take communion if you do it in a worthy manner, 2) taking it unworthily is to sin against the very body and blood of Christ, and 3) the consequence of such sin is physical death or illness? Try to be objective rather than just defending your entrenched position. Jay and I have pretty solid claims to objectivity since both of us grew up as very well-educated and conscientious Protestants, yet accepted Catholicism after a great deal of resistance. Please do not respond reflexively, but rather after consideration. Thanks.
In Christ,
Dave
