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I am not a scholar of the faith (so pardon the anecdotal nature of this point) but I do have friends from protestant denominations, and am amazed at the questions they ask regarding the Catholic teaching on the role of works. It seems to be a common perception that to the Catholic Church, good deeds are like currency; one can purchase salvation by doing good. When I explain that good deeds should be love (caritas) in action, they understand completely. Interestingly, most of these people are involved in some kind of faith based charity work themselves. Go figure.

Jay,

Very solid point. There is a lot of agreement between knowledgeable Protestants and the teaching of the Church. Basically, both sides would agree that intellectual assent is not enough. There must be a heart change. That is to say that the one who confesses with the tongue must not simply think that what they are saying is true, they must follow it up by committing their life into God's hands. Think of it this way: if someone says that gravity is not a powerful force and that they could jump off of a building and not die, it is possible that they believe that in their mind in some twisted way. But true belief of the heart comes in the jumping off of the building. Talk is cheap. Conscientious Protestants and Catholics believe this.

There is, however, a difference that the author quoted above does not recognize. Protestants believe that the works (or the jumping off the building) is really the evidence of a salvation that already existed, and that it is the underlying faith, not the proof thereof, that is important.

By contrast, Catholics believe that there is actual redemptive value in works. Many Protestants interpret that to mean that we can work our way to heaven, somehow earning God's favor (which is naturally repugnant). This is a false interpretation. The analogy that works best here is the body builder. If faith is the muscle that enables us to accept God's FREE gift of grace, than works is the exercise that keeps our faith in fit condition. James 2 clearly references a faith that has died through lack of works. So does the parable of the sower and the seed. In both examples, there was a thriving faith that was ultimately starved to death because it was not practiced. Paul tells us to work out our salvation in fear and trembling. Thus, for the Catholic, faith (like the thief on the cross) is enough. But faith can die, just as James so clearly tells us. And that death comes about because of the atrophy brought on by lack of works. So, works do have a redeeming value as the food that fuels our faith. Can one be a Christian with faith of the heart and no "good works"? Yes. Can one stay a Christian with faith of the heart and no "good works"? No.

In Christ,
Dave

Dave,

That was well put. If a fig tree is a fig tree, it will produce figs. If someone is truly saved and has truly accepted Christ, they will produce Christ like fruits as well.
I would just like to share the beliefs taught at my church. It may sound like what Dave typed, so forgive me if it seems repetitive.
When one is born again, they are born again of the spirit, right? Initially the spirit may not be strong enough to get the flesh under control. So yes, a born again Catholic or Protestant initially may not control their carnal instincts. However, through prayer and communing with the Lord, one can build up that spirit man inside of them. Just like you said Dave, like body building. We believe, like you do, it is Christ who is greater in us than he that is in the world. Through Him, operating his Spirit through us, all things are possible.
In John 1, we see that Jesus is the light that gives light to every man. When we worship and pray, we build up that light that is in us. Actually our worship and prayers move the Father to build up our spirit man. As a result of Christ being built up inside of us, more and more we will come to hate sin. Initially it may be conviction, then comes hatred for sin. This is the spirit of God guiding us. Because the spirit of God is built up inside of us, we will love as Christ did, have compassion for our fellow man as Christ did, bless others as Christ did, we will tend to emulate Christ more and more.
Indeed, it is good to bless others. The Bible clearly shows that if you bless a stranger you will be blessed as well. All of these are good works. We just believe that it is not of our OWN doing that good works come from ourselves, but through Christ who is being built up in us everyday.
James shows that if a person sees someone naked and without clothes(poor) and tells them be warm and filled without giving them what they need, what good is it?
Our view is that, if Christ truly resides in you, Christ will move you to bless the person in need. That is the nature of Christ.
We believe that TRUE faith, saves us. With true faith, comes certain fruits. If I say that I am a Christian yet I hate poor people, do I really have faith? Does Christ's love and compassion reside in me? Therefore, my faith would be dead.
If I say I have faith and do not love others, do I have faith that is alive in me?
In the end, we believe that through prayer, reading the Word and worshipping the Lord, we build up our spirit man, which will make us more Christ like, which will lead to us doing good works.

1 John 3: (17) Whoever has the means of life of the world, and sees his brother having need, and shuts up his heart of compassion from him, how does the love of God abide in him?

If one is truly saved, had truly accepted Christ into their heart, that person will be more like Christ. True faith saves...the works are evidence of that faith.

God Bless

Marc

I think you are understating the differences between Luther and, for example, the Council of Trent:

"If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to the obtaining [of] the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema."

The most challenging Scripture for Luther would of course be James 2. But James 2:21 "Was not Abraham our father justified by works, in that he offered up Isaac his son upon the altar?" merely makes the point that Abraham evidenced his faith. But his faith was not evidenced by putting Isaac on the altar, but rather by his intention of completing the sacrifice. So the saving work in that instance was something that was not actually done. What saved Abraham was a choice made through free will.

James next example was of Rahab, who was "justified by works, in that she received the messengers, and sent them out another way" (James 2:26, American Standard Version), but the NIV translates that as she was "considered righteous". Rahab said "I know that the LORD has given this land." (Joshua 2:10), and everything else followed from that faith (see Hebrews 11:31).

Luther said "All the works of men, even the most sanctified, are sin." Luther is saying that no work we do could ever make us worthy of entering heaven. That is an essential concept to understand about ourselves. It would be a dead faith indeed if we did not try to act on our faith, and to live like that would be a poor worship of God, but those acts cannot make us worthy.

I'm not sure what is the significance of a faith that needs works to maintain it. Is that a strong faith or something we are pretending to ourselves in order to gain eternal life for ourselves? What is needed is continuing to hold faith in the face of adversity: "He that endureth unto the end shall be saved" (Matthew 10:22).

The facts that some Protestants have mistaken ideas about their denomination does not have any more significance than when individual Catholics have mistaken ideas of the Vatican teaching. Please forgive me also if I have made mistakes in the preceeding.

Peter Kreeft is not the first to suggest that the gap between Protestants and Catholics on the "faith-works" issue is not as wide as we seem to think it is.

I believe that Melancthon (a Lutheran) and a Roman Catholic came to some sort of agreement on this issue at Regensburg (in Luther's life time and after the Council of Trent). The wording was similar to Kreeft's but unfortunately neither Lutherans nor Catholics had political motivation to reconcile the deep wounds which split the Church.

In 1997, Pope John Paul II came to a mutual understanding with a Lutheran on this issue as well. The wording seemed similar to what was said at Regensburg.

In addition to ambiguity about the word "faith" (I believe the Council of Trent uses the word 'credo' in the sense of intellectual assent when it condemns justification by faith alone), I think there is similar confusion about the word "works".

As was noted in an earlier comment, when the Church speaks of "works" they are not saying that believers can earn their way into heaven or that they deserve any of the graces God pours upon them even though some individual Catholics seem to be unaware of this.

When individual Protestants learn that Catholics do believe that they are saved by grace and grace alone - many Protestants withdraw their objections on this issue.

Where Protestants and Catholics would differ is the primary means by which a believer receives God's grace. Catholics affirm that participating in the sacraments are the primary means by which a believer receives God's grace.

Something I would like clarification on is what the church means by salvation by faith and works. I have always taken it to mean doing the "good deeds" referred to in the Penny Catechism as the spiritual works of mercy and the corporeal works of mercy. I am not so sure now and wonder if it refers to faithful participation in the sacraments.

Catholic scholarship has argued that there is in fact no contradiction between the proclamation of James 2:24 (Catholic tradition) and that of Paul 3:28 (Protestant doctrine).

In Romans 3:28 Paul says "We hold that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the law."

As seen in the context, Paul was referring to works of the old law, i.e., the ceremonial laws of Judaism, which Christ had made obsolete.

James 2:24 said "a man is justified by works and not by faith alone."

The reference to "works" in James' statement is NOT connected to Paul's works of the ceremonial Judaic law, but to works of "morally correct behavior," as is clearly seen in the context of this discourse.

It is argued by scholars that James here sought to reiterate Paul's earlier statement, while avoiding a possible misinterpretation, namely, the insinuation that one need not behave morally as a necessary consequence of one's faith.

What I state here is NOT a case of a particular Catholic being misinformed about Church teaching, and thereby forging a false agreement. This is legitimate mainstream Catholic teaching. In fact, it is quite conservative Catholic teaching, coming from the Navarre Bible text and commentary on the Catholic Epistles, page 31.

AGAIN: there is no incompatibility between the two views, and I for one would like to understand why there had to be such a kerfuffle about it.

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