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Now you see, here is something this Protestant can fully agree with you on. Both of those books are total, absolute, ficticious nonsense. :)

Treasonous ogres and Hollywood glue
Stephanie likes all the books about you
Tyre and Sidon they say are undone
Mommy and Daddy have taken my gun

Yes, the DaVinci Code and Angels and Demons are ficticious works but does that mean that there is no truth to some of the topics in the book.

All of the organizations mentioned in the book DO exist and serve purposes mentioned in the book.

Could there be other gospels that were written that are not included in our version of the Bible?

Isn't it possible that the Church could have suppressed a relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdelene?

Doesn't the term Rabbi, or teacher indicate the Jesus may indeed have been a married man?

What harm does it cause to Christianity if Jesus Christ was married? Where is it written that he was a virgin?

The word for the Holy Grail is translated as Dan Brown describes in his books. Is it not possible that the bloodline of Jesus is the Holy Grail?

Rather than someone's opinion on why it isn't so, what reasoning and evidence do you have that supports why it isn't?

I'm just curious.

Dynagirl55,

Very good question, and one that many people do not understand. First to the issue of Christ's virginity. The evidence is really quite overwhelming. To start, virginity was a symbol of purity and devotion to God. See Rev. 14:1-5. In fact, St. Paul writes in I Cor. 7:29-40 that married people are distracted with their spouses while unmarried persons are more devoted to the Lord. He further states that he who marries does well, but that he who does not marry does even better. It is really quite axiomatic that Jesus would choose the better over the good. A second piece of evidence is that the Bible never mentions Christ being married (obviously this is not conclusive). The third piece of evidence comes from Revelation where we find that Christ does in fact have a bride. That Bride is the Church, the new Jerusalem. The wedding is described in great detail in Rev. 19:6-9 and chapter 21. It would be quite blasphemous to suggest that Christ would consort with women on earth in advance of His great wedding to His spotless virgin bride. The final nail in the coffin of all this Mary Magdalene talk comes from Isaiah 53:8, which in prophecy of the Messiah states, "By oppression and judgment he was taken away. And who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgression of my people he was stricken." Here we have the definitive word that the Messiah would not have children (at least in the physical sense). In short, Christ's kingdom, as He so often told us, is not of this world. It is the kingdom of those who have been saved by His blood. His bride is the entirety of the redeemed. (BTW, "holy grail" does not appear anywhere in Scripture!)

As to other gospels, there certainly were other books about Christ. No question about it, the Gnostic gospels are real (Barnabus, Wisdom, Mary Magdalene, and the infamous Thomas). To these might be added the Protoevangelium of James, aka the Gospel of Peter. Of course there were also many epistles that were not included in the Scripture, such as the letters of Clement to the Corinthians. The bottom line is, none of these books are the holy, inspired, and inerrant word of God. We know this because the bishops of Christ's Church, successors to the apostles, and guardians of God's Word, affirmatively stated under the influence of the Holy Spirit (at the Councils of Carthage and Hippo in the late fourth century) that the books in our New Testament constituted the Holy Word of God... To the exclusion of other books in circulation.

Hope that helps.

In Christ,
Dave

Dynagirl55,
I would recommend Amy Welborn's deCoding Davinci to answer the specific areas where Dan Brown completely fabricated information for his theories.

The point is: it's fine for Dan Brown to invent information like this, but he shouldn't act like he did mounds of research and discovered something new. The book is completely full of bad assumptions and outright misinformation. Take a look at Amy Welborn's book and see if you don't agree.

God bless,
Jay

Thank you for your replies.

I appreciate what you are trying to say but I don't see how any point on the marriage of Christ was not a possiblity.

To say, 'What of the descendants',sounds to me like something anyone would say if someone that was a parent died. 'What about the children'. It doesn't rule anything out in my mind, as it does in yours.

I also am confused by the fact that Mary Magdelena and Thomas' gospels existing but not being defined as part of the Holy Word of God. Didn't Jesus walk with these people as he did with the other Apostles? Why then is it okay for someone, a man, thousands of years later to say that these gospels are 'more so' the word of God than others.

I will look at the book recommendation. Thank you for that.

I do however, don't believe my question about what harm could possibly be done 'if' Jesus were married. I also wonder if in fact his bride has been written into history as someone she wasn't out of spite, jealousy or revenge.

We all know this would not be the first inconsistency in the Bible.

Dynagirl55,

The words spoken by Isaiah were not "what about the children". Rather he said, "who can speak of his descendants? For he was cut off from the land of the living..." When a parent dies, you can speak of their children. When someone without children dies, you cannot. Isaiah is clearly saying here that no one can speak of Christ's descendants (this is obvious, yes?). There is simply no way around the fact that the only reason one could not speak of Christ's descendants is because they do not exist. Moreover, Isaiah goes on to very clearly give the reason for this: he was killed.

Regarding other Gospels, many books are written. Not all of them are inspired by the Holy Spirit. For Protestants, your points are worth noting. For Catholics, however, we have an infallible Magesterium that instructs us as to God's truth. Thus, when they declared what was Scripture in the fourth century, that is the end of the discussion. To hit your point more directly, however, these "gospels" were not actually written by Thomas, Mary Magdalene, etc. Rather, they were all written sometime during the second and third centuries, well after their namesakes had passed on.

Let me be the first to let you know that there is not a single doctrinal inconsistency in the Scripture.

In Christ,
Dave

I had a near death , a core one, when I went to heaven, I met angels, ancestors, the Council, and was at the throne of God. Mary Magdeline, I did not meet, see, or hear etc. I came back with a mission. Dan Brown's book, is his means to satisfy his greed. My sense tells me that it is evil, and inspired, by the evil spirits who prowl around seeking the ruin of souls, as St. Michael affirms.Wait until the end of the world, you will find out.
s

I had a near death , a core one, when I went to heaven, I met angels, ancestors, the Council, and was at the throne of God. Mary Magdeline, I did not meet, see, or hear etc. I came back with a mission. Dan Brown's book, is his means to satisfy his greed. My sense tells me that it is evil, and inspired, by the evil spirits who prowl around seeking the ruin of souls, as St. Michael affirms.Wait until the end of the world, you will find out.
s

I had a near death , a core one, when I went to heaven, I met angels, ancestors, the Council, and was at the throne of God. Mary Magdeline, I did not meet, see, or hear etc. I came back with a mission. Dan Brown's book, is his means to satisfy his greed. My sense tells me that it is evil, and inspired, by the evil spirits who prowl around seeking the ruin of souls, as St. Michael affirms.Wait until the end of the world, you will find out.
s

Dear Dynagirl55,
You are quite right in a sense. No one will be able to refute your questions, simply because they all hinge on mere possibility. I could string 1000 possibilities before you right now, and they would be very interesting, but that would not make them true. For example, let us play a game: what if the person who calls herself my mother is not really my mother. Don't laugh. This stuff has happened. Mistakes happen in hospitals. Is it possible? Yes. Am I going to go on a wild goose chase to see whether I can prove that such is not the case? Of course not, and the reason is obvious: I have a life, a job, a wife, a son. Only a lunatic would go about concocting possibilities and then wasting time proving them impossible. If I were to do that, guess what would happen: in the meantime, while doing all of that research, my relationship with my mother would definitely change, and not for the better. So, by taking this imbecilic book seriously, you will not be praying, adoring God, creating a litany to Mary Magdalen, or venerating the imaginary children of Jesus, for even this, though foolish, would require some faith. No, by taking this book seriously, you give Brown money to make you pray less or not at all, to make you waste your time, but we will be judged on our use of time.
Take care,
Non Praevalebunt

As well as Davinci's code, I am also reading Michael Jordan's "Maria, the unauthorized biography" and there are many historical documentation that corresponds to
Brown's usage of documentation in the Davinci's code. Jordan's book is not a novel, it is based on anthropological and historical data as well as many anonymous documents.
I am catholic and as such a ferviant believer but I also am a bachelor of science in Anthropology and as such value greatly historical and scientific data.
How we as catholics and scientists aknowledge and make sense of both sides.

First; DaVinci's Code is a book of fiction

Second; The bible was written by powerful people who knew how to write and be politically influential.

Third; The Catholic church was indeed set to be the "controller" of masses, which was very much in the interest of politicians, whether in Rome or anywhere else.

Fourth; Even to-day, politicians, including W Bush, use their "God" for political purposes and that is as recent as an election speech less than a week ago.

Fifth; We are generally better educated and able to judge what we read and the history of the Catholic, or any other mass religion, shows dark pages of suppression, killing and psychological suppression at the congregation levels. The bible was written by man and man is as liable to give his/her own version as another, whether "inspired" by God, or not.

So..........give me a break

John

Brilliant, John!

Too bad you haven't studied any history - until you do, give your opinions a break.

God bless,
Jay

Jay

Thanks for your enlightened comment,you obviously have not lived in other parts of the world for as long as I have. You'd be more informed and you'd realise that there is the written history (of which the bible is only one book), which even today is being rewritten in the interest of political interests),
so don't ask me to believe things "on faith".
Just look on the NA continent alone, Quebec for example.

John

John,
So you're a conspiracy theorist? Please provide some kind of evidence that you aren't making the same asinine claims that Dan Brown has made (which have been effectly destroyed by numerous other writers).

I'm little confused about your argument as well. You would say there is no history, right, because it has been changed by others? Interesting. Then why don't any notable historians agree with you? Are they part of the global conspiracy?

I recommend you go back and study the origins of the Bible - it might enlighten you to the truth.

God bless,
Jay

This is fun!! So we could go on ad infinitum
and argue our right believes.

I'll finish by saying "stay happy in your believes"

But don't try and force them on others, it will backfire on you eventually.

PS(!) I got thrown out of a catholic church when I was a kid because I wore short socks, instead of long. This gives you an idea about the extent to which man (pastor) uses the house of GOD as his own!!!!!!!

I'll go and walk in the park and enjoy the fall
so please read between the lines I wrote and I'll move to more interesting things to do. Cheerio!

John

John,
We don't do this because it's "fun" - we do it because it's important. I'm sorry you were once thrown out of a Catholic church, but that was an odd priest and I have no idea what he was thinking. I think you would feel more comfortable there now.

The point I was going toward is that there is a God and we can know Him. As you walk through the park this fall ask yourself how all of this came into existence. Big bang theory? Fine, but who started the big bang? There is simply too much order and perfection in the universe to believe no "Designer" is in control of it all.

Enjoy the park - one of the reasons it was created.

God bless,
Jay

Hi John

God is proud of you and so am I!

I must admit the Da Vinci Code raised some questions in my mind...I could not tell where facts stopped and fiction started...This is very dangerous for a confused sole. Faith in what I believe in carried me trough.

I listened to your thoughts and I do agree with most of them. I really don't care if Jesus was married, even though I think that he was not married. It is important for all people in faith to believe that he died for our sins; he is the reason that we get a second chance in life if you let Him.

My other half was a non believer... I became very ill last year. A small miracle happened in Nov04. He then asked me to take him to a church to ask God's forgiveness and my own. I didn't force him, I came from himself. This is a man that is very proud. He considers his actions carefully. He is truthful in his doing.

Just with a little faith like a mustard seed we will be able to great things in life.

I thank people like John to give their honest view of their reality. It comes down to this: We should not force information down other people's throats - John is correct. We should have just a little faith in the truth of our history and future. We have the choice what to believe.

Many of you might be asleep by now, I do not care. Dan Brown was a good read of fiction. It was interesting, but I admit, for me only fiction, with little twists of the truth to keep us interested. Well done to Dan Brown, because that makes him a good writer.

God blesses to you all, believers and non believers, of the Da Vinci Code!

Lydia

i am a hindu who ,though being a rationalist,have read the bible like i read any interesting book and found it inspiring once upon a time.the da vinci code was another good bestseller.i think man accepts ideas according to his personality and his immediate needs. infact any individual who leans on to any ideology is due to his lack of selfconfidence, be it momentary or permanent.please enrichen your self with what the world offers in whatever form.

Suresh,

Your comment seems conflicting...first you state that you are "a Hindu" and then you say that "any individual who leans on to any ideology is due to his lack of self confidence." Do you not consider Hinduism to be an ideology?

Secondly, do you not believe that there is such a thing as absolute and objective Truth? I will quote Pope Benedict XVI to expand upon this:

"Beyond all particular questions, the real problem lies in the question about truth. Can truth be recognized? Or, is the question about truth simply inappropriate in the realm of religion and belief? But what meaning does belief then have, what positive meaning does religion have, if it cannot be connected with truth?" -
Truth and Tolerance: Christian Belief and World Religions

Lastly, I would like to pose a question to you, having confidence that as a rationalist you will give it serious consideration. Again it come from the Pope in probing the mystery of salvation through Jesus Christ:

"But what if it is true?"

In Christ,
Joe

This is addressed to Lidia and I would appreciate John keeping quiet, for a change.

Thank you for taking the time to write a note in response to my thoughts.
I am truly thankful that there are people among the "believers" who, instead of trying to convert me to their thinking, actually engage in giving credence to other arguments, because that is all they are. There is not much proof (in my life) of the "absolute truth" in any thoughts based on "faith" and "belief" in Christ. I see what I see and marvel at a view from the cockpit at 40,000ft and it gives me satisfaction in the job.Do you know how vulnerable one's life is at that altitude?
If one (like your husband?) survives a near death threat, who is to say it is a "devine" interference or just plain luck, or opportune and timely application of medical science? Or the problem was temporary at the molecular level.
Coming from a flying background, I have survived several close calls and, in my opinion, they were plain luck. I'd be an arrogant so and so to think that a person called G'd could be interested in my existence and save me from my own demise. For everyone like myself there are a milion who get slaughtered (without burials or graves) in the interest of oil or drugs or anything connected with the excercise of power and revenge. Do they not have the same G'd looking after them and give his devine interference in the final departure from this earth?
If you receive comfort from your own G'd, please stay the course because that is what makes your life bearable. Others have to find their own ways and I did that in another dimension from yours, leaving two happy souls. So those among the "born again" or other religious sects should stay their course without making others feel they are "on the wrong path" and in need of "conversion".
We were discussing the DaVinci's code and a writer's fiction around this plus some possible real life possibilities around Magdalena and Christ, including his relation to her and I take issue with this being used as a tool for converting the heathens, hence this rather long reply.

Did this discussion dry up or was it pulled for some reason ?

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