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First off, I think most Protestants fully understand the value of confessing sins to another human. It is good for the spirit and honestly I wonder if we can really be sorry for a sin we cannot tell another person about. The book of James tells us to confess sins to one another. However, what Protestants take issue with is that we have to confess sins to a priest in order to receive forgiveness.

The question that comes to mind for me is...what about all the Protestants in the world who have never confessed to a priest? Have our sins not been forgiven? Or perhaps I do not fully understand what absolution is all about?

So can you answer the question of what happens to Protestants (or Catholics for that matter) who do not confess their sins to a priest? How does it impact us on earth and in an eternal sense?

In response to Tim,

In the early days of the Church, people went up before the entire congregation to confess their sins, though the priest or bishop was still acting in the place of Christ when it came to forgiveness. Confession as it is today had to evolve from that because as congregations grew, this became time consuming. The priest is the representative of the entire congregation, and still acts in the place of Christ.

For those who do not confess to a priest or bishop(a man delegated by Apostolic Succession to act in the place of Christ), they may be forgiven...but they only can have a feeling of being forgiven rather than an assurance.

whew!,
in the book of James 5 it states," which on of you is sick, the key word here is sick, then let him have the elders of the church anoint him, each confessing their sins to one another and pray the prayer of faith, for healing." to have a feeling that sins or forgiven rather than to confess sin with your mouth and believe in your heart that you are forgiven is like saying the blood of Jesus is kool-aid (it's not strong enough or didn't redeem all mankind for the possibility of salvation). when the veil covering the Ark of the Covenant tore in two when Jesus physically died, the need for high priest or priest intercession for our sins was no longer needed. for Catholic reasons it is still practiced, but i'm not a Catholic so it doesn't matter to me. the focus is Jesus being the mediator not a man, Jesus said,"whatever you pray to the Father, ask in My name and you shall recieve." i go to Him for forgiveness, not a man. show me a high priest more sufficent than Jesus to intercede on behalf of mankind and i will show you the face of God. it's all about Jesus, period.

Paul,
Then why did Jesus tell the apostles "if you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained"? If you are correct, and you are not, then this would be a waste of time for Jesus.

You're taking one verse out of context and creating a doctrine around it. What about all of the other verses (in the article above) that you just ignore? Jesus is the high priest - this is basic Catholic doctrine. However, Jesus Himself instituted the priesthood in Matthew 18. You're trying to say that Jesus made a mistake. Clearly you are wrong.

You need to address all of the verses, not just the one you think you can contort to fit your meaning.

God bless,
Jay

jay,
what are you talking about? if you think that i'm taking a verse out of context and making false doctrine, are you sure you wanna tell me to read Matthew 18? the book of James came after Matthew, point one. point two, in Matthew 18, Jesus is still alive, so you still needed the priest to intercede. point three, Matthew 18, talks about those who will be the greatest in Heaven, those who recieve God's Love as a child in Jesus' name, retrieving the lost (those not in church, where they are welcome by others of their kind and not in the world), the brother who sins against another and sets out to recieve justice in the company of others and if the situation escalates take it before the church, you see only saved people can dispute within each other not people of the world vs. the saved, God won't allow them (the world) to get involved in our affairs. and the unmerciful servants shows our unwillingness to forgive each other when our Father forgives all of us. now since we are talking about intercession, you read:
1 John 4 & 5
1 Peter 3-5
Hebrews 10 and
Galatians 6
my friend, you can intercede for me just as a priest would or do you believe that you are not holy enough? jay stop reading the Bible and start living it, as a born again child of God, just believe and watch Him drop understanding all over you.

1 Corinthians 4,
Paul

Paul,

What are you talking about? To say that Jay isn't living the Bible shows your own pride. How do you know what type of person Jay is? Maybe you missed the fact that he has set up a Catholic website that he is using as a tool to fulfill Jesus' final command in the Gospels, namely:

Go into all the world and preach the gospel to the whole creation Mark 16:15

Your comments on the priesthood are both not only unbiblical but also fail to take into considerable the history of Christianity. For two thousand years the priesthood has existed, just study your history. Biblically speaking try reading 1 Thessalonians 5:12-13; 1 Timothy 5:17-22 (which is a commission to Timothy, a priest), and Hebrews 13:7, 17. Again, you attempt to fault us for attempting to remain faithful to the Church that Christ established, to the Church that is visibly present throughout the history of Christianity, to the Church that all other Christian churches broke away from. So allow me to paraphrase your earlier comment:

Stop misreading the Bible and enter into the Church Christ established, so that you might know how Christ wants you to live. Then you will enter into the fullness of truth and receive genuine understanding.

In Christ,
Joe

dear Joe,
pride over fault will keep us lost and angry at each other. i have always commended you guys website and commented out of my love for you guys as brothers in Christ. to read the Word and not live it is a big step for all of us as believers to do. God asks us to do very simple things, that bear persecution by the standards of the world. but it seems that all that i have read seems talk down on believers who are not Catholic, that's what i find wrong. if we are so wrong in our ways, then why is the Catholic church always found in the media's scandals? i'm not saying that other denominations don't take blows, especially recently which that mess just disgust me; but if i wanted to come to mass without being "converted", would i be an outcast? i'm not downing your belief in desiring a priest to intercede for you but remeber, Paul said that we were all poured the same measure of faith, (we have no limit spiritual limits, because God has no limits). remeber without faith, it is impossible to please God. a seed doesn't grow until it dies, surrounded by dirt. so let's keep dying of self and grow in the Lord.

God bless,
Paul

Paul,
"If we are so wrong in our ways, then why is the Catholic Church always found in the media's scandals?"

Because in case you haven't noticed the media has a hidden agenda and is one of Satan's most powerful tools in bringing people away from Christ especially away from the One, True Church He founded. I learned at a very young age that the media distorts truth on a whole and recreates reality ~ painting a picture the devil desires you to believe in. Don't fall into the trap.

maria,
the world as it is now is a distortion of God's creation, that's why we close our eyes when we pray. to enter His presence. i know that the media is one of satan's most powerful tools and music is the largest. did you know that satan lead the praise and worship of God in Heaven before all of this began? but from what i have read it's like if you are not Catholic, you not going to Heaven . this is simply not true. from what i'm reading it's like the Catholics have all the awnsers to the Bible and it's innermost secrets plus whatever other information the Vatican holds. God will keep no secrets from His whole-hearted followers. we are taught by the Spirit of God, we assmble to build up His Kingdom and we witness to spread His work in our lives onto others. but confession you wrongs to someone whose faith is the same as yours is crazy. now don't get me wrong, faith is faith and is the core of our salvation but you have to believe in order for the faith to work too. and i'm sorry, no penalty box for me.

Paul,
First, we've never said on this site that "if you are not Catholic, you are not going to Heaven" - you made that up yourself. However, clearly Jesus created a Church whose function is to get us to heaven. You are not a member of that Church, so it will be more difficult for you to get to heaven (you don't have the sacraments), which is why we've created this site: to help spread the Truth.

Clearly, we do have a better understanding of the Bible. Protestants tend to focus on the passages they like and ignore the others. The Catholic Church wrote and compiled the Bible and understands it better than anyone else (see 1 Tim 3:15). For example, I just added a post on the Eucharist. Most protestants miss the Eucharist in the Bible, but it is very clearly defined. Unfortunately, if we do not have someone to help us understand, we're likely to miss some obvious points made in the Bible (Acts 8:30-31). For example, you say "confession you wrongs [sic] to someone whose faith is the same as yours is crazy." But, Paul, this is what the Bible teaches. You are simply misinterpreting the Word of God, which is the biggest problem with the doctrine of Sola Scriptura to which you adhere.

God bless,
Jay

man please, you gonna be mad when you meet born-again Jeffrey Dahlmer up in Heaven. i don't have my Sword on me right now but i will check out these Scriptures you adhere to so much. i practice communion with the Lord and Him only. as far as confessing what i meant is the priest is just as much a sinner as i. he does not have the authority to forgive sins. remember the problem the Pharisees had with Jesus. they were like who does this guy think He is? and i'm sorry but Jesus is the High Priest now and my sins are forgive by Him, no intercessor needed. Numbers 5 and Hebrews 5.

Paul

Paul,

I am curious how you explain the following verses:

"'And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. I will give you the keys of the kingdome of heaven; whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.'" (Matt. 16:18-19)

"Again Jesus said, 'Peace be with you! As the Father has sent me, I am sending you.' And with that he breathed on them and said, 'Receive the Holy Spirit. If you forgive anyone his sins, they are forgiven; if you do not forgive them, they are not forgiven.'" (John 20:21-23)

These two verses are rich with Catholic doctrine, but the key portions I am asking about are binding and loosing on earth and heaven, and forgiving sins. The Church teaches that Christ is granting the Church, as His earthly body, the power to forgive sins. I would be very interested to hear your view on what these verses mean.

I will briefly elaborate on the Catholic position.

First, in both cases, Christ is speaking to His apostles (Peter or the Twelve).

Second, Christ clearly states His position that the apostles are to be His representatives ("on this rock", "I am sending you").

Third, He grants the apostles all of His authority. Notice that He states that He is sending them even "as the Father has sent me". Recall that elsewhere in Scripture, Christ states that the Father has given Him ALL of the Father's authority. Thus, to send the apostles as the Father sent the Son means that Christ also is granting the apostles (the Church) ALL of His authority. This is hammered home when we consider that the Church is Christ's body! It should not surprise us, then, that the body has the same authority as the head. The two are in reality one flesh, just as the man and the woman are one flesh.

Fourth, and finally, we see the extent of that authority clearly enunciated: whatever they bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and vice versa. Whoever's sins they forgive will be forgiven, and vice versa. And to bring that point home, Jesus tells Peter that He is giving him the keys to the kingdom of heaven. Putting it all together, Jesus is making the full extent of the authority He is granting obvious by telling the apostles that they have been given the power over the eternal destination of souls, the same power given to Him by the Father!

I'm not trying to hammer you over the head with this, but rather to explain where the Catholic sacrament of Penance originates. The third and fourth points above are loaded with symbolism, and my brief summary really does not do them justice, but I cannot write a thesis in this posting. Essentially, however, Penance is not a practice that puts us a step removed from Christ. Rather, it is a recognition that the full power (including the body and blood) of Christ is present in the Church in a way that is more real than the computer I'm using to type this message. The priest does not forgive our sins--rather Christ acting through His servant, the priest, forgives our sins. You are correct to say that the priest may have the same holiness as you or I. But Christ, in His abounding grace and love, uses even the weakest among us to accomplish His greatest purposes. And bear in mind that even these priests have to confess their sins.

In Christ,
Dave

howdy dave,
i hope that everything is good with you. let's look back at the beginning of Matthew 16. the haters were asking Jesus for a sign from Heaven, whether to validate It's existence or Jesus' claim to be the Son of Man. Jesus then tells them that the only sign that they would recieve(probably because of their age or Spiritual blindness) is the account of Jonah which was centuries before. He tells them this because of their holier than thou attitudes towards those who did not follow them. Later He tells the disciples (disciples- all followers of Him) to guard themselves against the teachings of the Pharisees and Sadducess. Why?
Because they had not recieved the Holy Spirit as a teacher yet to discern for them the difference between true and false teachings.(1 Corinthians 2). remember the haters are supposedly the Spiritual authority of the time. but Peter a mere fisherman, an ancestor of Jonah whose name means dove, a prophet and messenger of God sent to an evil land to preach the need of repentance, who talked with God personally, a disobedient servant who did not want to go, tells the world that Jesus is the Son of the Living God. how awesome is that?! Jesus then says that He (Jesus) is the Rock on which Hades will not overcome. then He gave Peter the authority over the prophets and apostles as their leader. Peter also recieved task of preaching the WORD (keys to the Kingdom) to the masses. which we all possess, the ability to preach the Word.
the phrase binding and looseing. what do we bind on earth? what do we loose on earth? faith, hope and love. remember the Lord's Prayer. Thy Kingdom Come, Thy will be done on Earth as it is in Heaven. we are not to pass judgement on one another therefore, we can not convict a single soul of sin but we can and are suppose to announce the ways and teachings of God. to believe in Him, to live for Him until He comes again and to love one another as you love yourself. the same rules in Heaven as on earth. to hear another man's confession of sins (at that time before the crucifixion), tell him that he is forgiven for all of his sins and to baptize him as the symbol of a new beginning. remember in John when Jesus ran into people that he had healed or had forgiven for sins alraeday and He told them to stop sinning. why would He do that? because, His blood had not been spilled yet. remember His' blood washes away all sins. the only sins that we have held against us are those not under the blood. we confessed those sins and recieved a new life in Christ. the rest of our sins, under the blood only hinder our walk with God. the only unpardonable sin is to die without God's free gift of salvation, Jesus.
only Jesus can turn gays straight, only Jesus can make the innocent-guilty or the guilty-innocent, only God can Judge. man does not have a Heaven or a hell to send anyone, only God has this authority. let no man judge unless he is willing to to be judged himself.

Bound by Faith, Hope and Love so that we all may know,
Paul

The salvation of Christ is for everyone who calls on His name. 1 Cor 1:2 "saints, with all who in erery place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." If I were to judge righteously then I would say that it is vile to try to exclude other christians who are following the Word by saying they will have a harder time getting into heaven because they are not in the one church Christ started. Christ wants to include people, you want to exclude people. The church that Christ started is composed people called saints or the body of Christ which only means that they are in the body of Christ and thus saved. Act 2:47 "... the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved." So "the church" that "Christ started" is composed of all the people that would be saved. Now you yourself admit that people outside of the catholic church will be saved. And so "the church" that "Christ started" is not the catholic church but rather a larger entity composed of all those that would be saved. There are really only a few things that we need to do to be saved. Believe that Jesus is the Son of God and that God raised Him from the dead, and that He is the only way to heaven; that no other name or anything we can do of ourselves makes us right with God. Really we do not even have to be baptized to be saved because there are several verses that say simply believe and you will be saved. That is trust in Jesus and you will be saved. Now another thing is the taking of the blood and body of Christ, without which we have not life. It is not said of baptism, "if you are not baptized, you will not be saved." But it is said about the body of Christ, "if you do not eat the body and blood of Christ, you have no life in yourself." It is said many times believe and be baptized and you will be saved, but it is also said, simply believe and you will be saved. And then perhaps endure to the end but there is even speculation about that. Many say that as long as we keep our trust in Christ, there is nothing we can do to lose our salvation; except for one thing and that is the worst sin; that is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Blasphemy against the HS is turning away from God's plan of salvation through Christ and telling ourselves that we can be saved by following the law or by some means other than Christ. Many people think that this is the one thing that can tear us away from our salvation; having once known the way of salvation through Christ and then turning away searching for another way.

Jay

Please Stop making the statement that The Catholic church wrote the bible. You make an error from the beginning when you make such a statement.. You know The old testatment is a JEWISH BOOK... GOD's Chosen people wrote the OT and they WERE NOT CATHOLIC... I don't understand why you portray it as Catholic ....

Second the New Testament was written by the
apostles They were not Catholics or Roman Catholics... They were called The Way and
Christians in the first century. Look in the book of Acts.. Everyone know the word Catholic means universal and that is ALL it means but that label did not come into being until after the Apostles.

The Title Roman Catholic did not come in until
after the emperor Constantine in 325 AD or later...

In Rev 1:6, Rev 5:10 and Rev 20:6 The believers are called priests.. So aren't all true believers in a sense Priests? Jay you claim that Jesus Created the priesthood in Matthew 16:18 . But He never referred to Peter or the apostles as priests after this confession in Matthew. They were disciples but Jesus never once called them priests. Did Paul call Timothy a priest in the verse sited above? That is an
assumption. Was Timothy ever refered to or addressed as a priest in scripture ???
The scriptures listed in the post above by Joe
do not refer to or use the title priest .. They
may refer to duties or quailifications that priests in the RCC now have but the title priest
is not used.

The title of Elder and Deacon and Bishop is used in the new testament in reference to leadership
in the church but never is the term Priest or Pope used for the leadership. So can anyone tell me when the Clerical Priesthood came into being ?

The Apostolic church of the 1st century did not
celebrate a liturgical MASS. What they did was not called the MASS . What they celebrated is
not the liturgical Mass celebrated Pre Vatican
2 or Post Vatican 2. If it was prove it.

The only record of the first century chuch services is what is described in Acts
where it decribes them meeting in homes breaking
bread and praying an singing praises to God.
There wasn't a PRIEST officiating at these home
fellowships..

You are being dishonest when you make the claim
that Catholics wrote the bible. What the church counsels did do was to assemble for the most part recognized Old testament writings and vote on which books written after Christ should be considered Canon for the New testament ...

This was a great service to put everything together in one book. But again the Church DID
NOT Write the bible.... You loose credibility
when you make false and misleading statements
on who wrote the bible...

If anything I have posted is incorrect please
list in scripture where my assessment is in
error. Thank You.

In search of Truth

Clem

I've never heard any Catholic say that they wrote the Bible. They did put it together and decided what was fit to be added and what wasnt. Without the Catholic church though, you wouldnt have the Bible that you do now.

The Catholic Church was a little different in the beginning. For a while it behaved like a sect of Judaism. They didnt kneel during the consecration in Mass, they stood, and there were other differences. Saints started calling the church the Catholic Church about 100 years after Jesus died. What you forget is that it was one group this whole time. Later it was called Roman Catholic but it was the same group. The Mass probably wasnt called the Mass then but does that even matter? It was the same thing essentially. It changed a little over time but it was the same group of people doing essentially the same worship.

Jesus never called Peter or the Apostles priests. This was something that was established later on but he did give them the same abilities as priests have. These abilities and responsiblities had to be passed on to others so therefore, the priesthood was created. The apostles died but their followers were still organized and continued what they started to this day. Did you know the tomb of Peter is under the vatican? When Jesus said that on Peter, the rock, he would build his church, that was literal in two ways.

You cant say that just because all people can be saved that the Catholic Church is not necessary. That is ridiculous. Jesus knew that we needed a church to lead us and guide us in the changing world. A church that would teach mostly the same things forever. A church that would always be there for his people. We as Catholics believe you can be saved if you live your live as a good person and strive for holiness but since you dont have the sacrements, it would be harder. Jesus or the apostles never said to believe whatever you want and do whatever you want as long as you have faith. They set up the church for a reason.

The whole thing about the scandals in the media is ridiculous. I am disgusted that it happened but it was less than 1% of priests, yet somehow the whole church is made to look bad by the media. The Catholic Church has made other mistakes in the past and allowed some bad things to happen but it is also ran by people and people can be tempted and often make mistakes. Name any church, union, government, group, or family that doesnt have sin or corruption to some extent. If your church you go to stayed around for 2000 years, i'm sure people would be able to complain about IT for some things. Dont you also think the devil would go after God's true church harder than others? He obviously is, the way it is portrayed in the media and in movies.

For those who do not confess to a priest or bishop(a man delegated by Apostolic Succession to act in the place of Christ), they may be forgiven...but they only can have a feeling of being forgiven rather than an assurance.

My response(Ray):They are not forgiven because they have not confessed to a priest.If it is not forgiven on earth then it is not forgiven in Heaven. John 20:23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained. If they are not forgiven then they are still there.

Also;Hebrews 5:1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in the things that appertain to God, that he may offer up gifts and sacrifices for sins:

Hebrews 5:2 Who can have compassion on them that are ignorant and that err: because he himself also is compassed with infirmity.

Hebrews 5:3 And therefore he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.

Hebrews 5:4 Neither doth any man take the honour to himself, but he that is called by God, as Aaron was.

These scripures here plainly state that a person cannot confess their sins straight to God,but that a priest taken from among men and ordained must offer up the sacrifices and gifts for our sins. This priest should be in a state of grace before he preforms these actions,which is one reason why all priests must also confess theirs sins to one another,and so that theirs sins may also be forgiven.

Paul,
First, we've never said on this site that "if you are not Catholic, you are not going to Heaven" - you made that up yourself. However, clearly Jesus created a Church whose function is to get us to heaven. You are not a member of that Church, so it will be more difficult for you to get to heaven (you don't have the sacraments), which is why we've created this site: to help spread the Truth.

Benny here: I will say it(You have to be Catholic to make it to Heaven) Here is the reason why:Our Lord Jesus said it himself;John 14:6 Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.
So you have to go through Jesus in order to see God.The head and body of Jesus can not be separated.Jesus is the head of the church and the body of the church.Ephesians 5:23 Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body.
Ephesians 1:22 And he hath subjected all things under his feet and hath made him head over all the church,
Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body,the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things he may hold the primacy:

Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body,which is the church:

Since his body is the church and Jesus and his body can not be separated then you have to go through the church in order to come unto the Father(God).

The Holy Trinity;God the Father,God the Son,God the Holy Ghost: All three are one and the same and also separate identities.So God the Son(Jesus and his body the church) are one and the same as God the Holy Ghost.Man is fallible,but God is infallible which means that God is the church because the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. Matthew 16:18 And I say to thee; That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. God is the church in the form of the Holy Ghost and the one unforgivable sin is blasphemy of the Holy Ghost (walking away from the church which is his body ). This is an unforgivable sin because by not being in the church(Jesus body) and confessing your sins you therefore do not have forgiveness for your sins because a priest has not forgiven them here on earth,therefore they are not forgiven in Heaven.

dear clem; from benny; concerning your statement:
Please Stop making the statement that The Catholic church wrote the bible. You make an error from the beginning when you make such a statement.. You know The old testatment is a JEWISH BOOK... GOD's Chosen people wrote the OT and they WERE NOT CATHOLIC... I don't understand why you portray it as Catholic ....
Second the New Testament was written by the
apostles They were not Catholics or Roman Catholics... They were called The Way and
Christians in the first century. Look in the book of Acts.. Everyone know the word Catholic means universal and that is ALL it means but that label did not come into being until after the Apostles.

If the people of the Catholic church did not write the Bible then who did?Yes, you would say the early Christians right? Oh, but they weren't called Christians until later at Antioch. So the Apostles weren't Christians until then right? What were they then pagans, heathen or what?Do you get my drift?The Apostles wheren't called Catholic until later either,but this does not mean they weren't universal Apostles that preached to the Romans,the Gentiles and anybody else that would listen,since this is what Jesus told them to do.Preach to all creatures.

So you cannot tell me who wrote the Bible through history can you?Other than to say it was the early Christians.Therefore maybe you can tell me why the Catholic Church would assemble and decide which books went into the Bible if their own Church did not write the Bible.Why would they do this for somebody else's church?Doesn't make sense does it.Through history it can be proven that the Catholic Church did provide the Bible and the books that originally went into it.Since then people have change it to their own ends in their own translations such as the king james version that left out some of the books etc. Apocalypse 22:18 For I testify to every one that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book: If any man shall add to these things, God shall add unto him the plagues written in this book.

Apocalypse 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from these things that are written in this book.

to nick; concerning your comments;
Jesus never called Peter or the Apostles priests. This was something that was established later on but he did give them the same abilities as priests have. These abilities and responsiblities had to be passed on to others so therefore, the priesthood was created.

from benny
How do you know that Jesus didn't call them Priests?Just because it isn't in the Bible as Jesus saying it doesn't mean anything.Logic says that you nor anybody else can know all that Jesus said for one simple reason,you nor me nor anybody else is ,what say over 1900 years old and would have to have lived in the time of Jesus.

The Apostles did ordain priests in their time as it is in the Bible. Acts 14:21 Confirming the souls of the disciples and exhorting them to continue in the faith: and that through many tribulations we must enter into the kingdom of God.

Acts 14:22 And when they had ordained to them priests in every church and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord, in whom they believed.
Titus 1:5 For this cause I left thee in Crete: that thou shouldest set in order the things that are wanting and shouldest ordain priests in every city, as I also appointed thee:
James 5:14 Is any man sick among you? Let him bring in the priests of the church and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.
Apocalypse 5:9 And they sung a new canticle, saying: Thou art worthy, O Lord, to take the book and to open the seals thereof: because thou wast slain and hast redeemed us to God, in thy blood, out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation:

Apocalypse 5:10 And hast made us to our God a kingdom and priests, and we shall reign on the earth.
Acts 20:28 Take heed to yourselves and to the whole flock, wherein the Holy Ghost hath placed you bishops, to rule the Church of God which he hath purchased with his own blood.

Philippians 1:1 Paul and Timothy, the servants of Jesus Christ: to all the saints in Christ Jesus who are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons.
Titus 1:7 For a bishop must be without crime, as the steward of God: not proud, not subject to anger, nor given to wine, no striker, not greedy of filthy lucre:
Therefore these verses clearly show that there were priests and bishops,and as the Church was before the Bible the ordinary daily routine of the Church is not written in the Bible.Do you get a detailed explaintion of what to do and how to drive when you buy a car?No,because it is common place you already know the basics......Same with the Catholic Church and their routines.These traditions were kept through all these years.

2 Thessalonians 2:14 Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle.

The salvation of Christ is for everyone who calls on His name. 1 Cor 1:2 "saints, with all who in erery place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." If I were to judge righteously then I would say that it is vile to try to exclude other christians who are following the Word by saying they will have a harder time getting into heaven because they are not in the one church Christ started. Christ wants to include people, you want to exclude people. The church that Christ started is composed people called saints or the body of Christ which only means that they are in the body of Christ and thus saved. Act 2:47 "... the Lord was adding to their number day by day those who were being saved." So "the church" that "Christ started" is composed of all the people that would be saved. Now you yourself admit that people outside of the catholic church will be saved. And so "the church" that "Christ started" is not the catholic church but rather a larger entity composed of all those that would be saved.

There can be only one Church for the simple reason that Jesus said so himself.

Matthew 12:25 And Jesus knowing their thoughts, said to them: Every kingdom divided against itself shall be made desolate: and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand.

Luke 11:17 But he seeing their thoughts, said to them: Every kingdom divided against itself shall be brought to desolation; and house upon house shall fall.
If you look at it logically none of these churches teach the same things, therefore they are divided.It stands to reason then that there can be only one Church .That is the Church that teaches the same way and things all over the world.This is the Traditional Catholic Church.The Church that has not changed the basic mass since it was set up by the early Church of the Apostles.This is also the Church that wrote and assembled the Bible.Why wouldn't you believe the author of the book over what you read and think.Wouldn't the author know more than you about what he wrote since he wrote it?Well you say look at the priests that have messed with boys.This is what Jesus says in his own words and in the Bible. Romans 3:23 For all have sinned and do need the glory of God.
Mark 11:26 But if you will not forgive, neither will your father that is in heaven forgive you your sins.(Words of Jesus)
John 8:7 When therefore they continued asking him, he lifted up himself and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.(Words of Jesus)

Same thing applies here, for all people sin each and every one of us, therefore don't judge a priest or any one else.

According to Jesus there is no salvation other than through his body. John 14:6 Jesus saith to him: I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No man cometh to the Father, but by me.
Romans 12:4 For as in one body we have many members, but all the members have not the same office:

Romans 12:5 So we, being many, are one body in Christ; and every one members one of another:

1 Corinthians 12:20 But now there are many members indeed, yet one body.

Ephesians 5:23 Because the husband is the head of the wife, as Christ is the head of the church. He is the saviour of his body.
Colossians 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things he may hold the primacy:
Colossians 1:24 Who now rejoice in my sufferings for you and fill up those things that are wanting of the sufferings of Christ, in my flesh, for his body, which is the church:
1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know that the head of every man is Christ: and the head of the woman is the man: and the head of Christ is God.
Ephesians 1:22 And he hath subjected all things under his feet and hath made him head over all the church,

Now, if you can separate the head and the body of Jesus then I guess you can be saved,but as you cannot then you have to be in the body of Jesus in order to see God.It says this plainly in these scriptures in the words of Jesus.It also says that his body is the Church,so then that means you have to be in the Church in order to see God.Which Church is this?Has to be the Church that wrote and assembled the Bible because the Church came before the Bible and can stand without the Bible through the traditions handed down over the ages.
2 Thessalonians 2:14 Therefore, brethren, stand fast: and hold the traditions, which you have learned, whether by word or by our epistle.
Where would your church be without the bible?
Then again you would say I can ask forgiveness from Jesus personally and he will forgive them.This is not true for the simple reason that it says that the priests have the power to forgive or to retain sins.It also says that you cannot take the honour unto yourself. Hebrews 5:1 For every high priest taken from among men is ordained for men in the things that appertain to God, that he may offer up gifts and sacrifices for sins:

Hebrews 5:2 Who can have compassion on them that are ignorant and that err: because he himself also is compassed with infirmity.

Hebrews 5:3 And therefore he ought, as for the people, so also for himself, to offer for sins.

Hebrews 5:4 Neither doth any man take the honour to himself, but he that is called by God, as Aaron was.
Retain or forgive sins. Matthew 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
Matthew 16:19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
John 20:20 And when he had said this, he shewed them his hands and his side. The disciples therefore were glad, when they saw the Lord.

John 20:21 He said therefore to them again: Peace be to you. As the Father hath sent me, I also send you.

John 20:22 When he had said this, he breathed on them; and he said to them: Receive ye the Holy Ghost.

John 20:23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.
If you could ask forgiveness straight from God,Jesus, then why would he give power unto the
Apostles to forgive sins.Does that mean God is not perfect and can make a mistake or what?Well I for one am going to worship a God that is perfect and go through his body and hope I can stay on the straight and narrow path. Matthew 7:13 Enter ye in at the narrow gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way that leadeth to destruction, and many there are who go in thereat.

Matthew 7:14 How narrow is the gate, and strait is the way that leadeth to life: and few there are that find it!

Luke 13:24 Strive to enter by the narrow gate: for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter and shall not be able.
This should give you a clue in that narrow is the gate and strait is the way and few there are that find it.That includes Catholics for they also have to strive against sin.The difference is that if they humble themselves and confess their sins unto a priest and are forgiven here on earth then their sins will be forgiven in Heaven. Matthew 16:19 And I will give to thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven. And whatsoever thou shalt bind upon earth, it shall be bound also in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, it shall be loosed also in heaven.
John 20:23 Whose sins you shall forgive, they are forgiven them: and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained.
Salvation is this simple: Believe the Church that wrote and put the Bible together for how can it be wrong if the Bible is Holy and Inspired words of God.The Church would have to be inspired by God also. Matthew 16:18 And I say to thee: That thou art Peter; and upon this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Welcome Benny

Have u posted here before?

In Love

when we were one

benny here,
no I have not posted here before.

How are you when we were one?

wwwo here

got a little cold. thanks for asking though. enjoying reading your posts.

In Love

wwwo

benny here;

do you know jay? if so what is his last name?

OR jay if you are reading this,what is your last name?

If I may ask:

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